Celestial stops Shaw Brothers releases

[Michael Kistner]

Someone told me that Celestial stops the Shaw Brothers releases. No more DVDs and VCDs for 2008 because of not much profit with the sales.

Someone know more about it? If it is true it would be terrible. Many interesting titles wait for a release (The Villains, Operation Lipstick, Lady Exterminator,...).

I hope another company continues the releases.

[Mike Thomason]

Celestial still hold the rights to the Shaw catalogue, but I think you're confusing the licence holder with the video distribution company Intercontinental in Hong Kong. This blurb was posted up on IVL's website early to mid-last year...

http://www.intercontinental.com.hk/abou ... _index.htm

"In 2002, IVL added to its distribution list the Celestial Productions owned "Shaw Brothers Film Library", the world's largest Chinese film library. The digitally restored Shaw Brothers Film Library offers an unparalleled variety of film genres ranging from musical drama (the famous Yellow Plum musical series), Kung-fu, martial arts, romance to comedy and contemporary drama. Up to 2006, we have released in excess of 500 titles and by the end of 2007, we will continue releasing the remaining 120 titles to complete the library."

So as far as home video (DVD/VCD/whatever) in Hong Kong goes - yes, that's it.

I wouldn't bother emailing Celestial (or IVL, who are now majority owned by Japanese company Kadokawa) over the whole thing -- they stopped answering emails from the general rabble (or public as we refer to ourselves) quite some time ago; however, if you're a proven media company/distributor and are interested in licencing the Shaw Catalogue, I'm sure Celestial would be only too happy to speak with you...after the money's on the table first, of course.

[Harlock]

no more dvds or vcds in 2008, the remaining movies are suposed to be out on celestial video-on-demand in HK ONLY, too sad

[Brian Thibodeau]

no more dvds or vcds in 2008, the remaining movies are suposed to be out on celestial video-on-demand in HK ONLY, too sad

Several Shaw titles, admittedly fairly familiar titles to most of you guys around here, are already available via download (VOD?) in North America (got three of 'em on my computer right now, and watch them on the TV). Not sure if the service has expanded that boundary, but I'd imagine it's only a matter of time before the available Shaw download catalogue outside Hong Kong and Asia—expands at least a bit, perhaps even by similar such providers in other regions.


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[chiangkamfan]

this theme is discussed in many forums since a few month.

very different statements,especially about how many movies are really existing
most people write that there are about 200 movies still to be released

anyway,here are some trustworthily infos




http://www.shaw-brothers-reloaded.com/html/shaw_brothers_fans__betrayed_a.html

[Brian Thibodeau]

anyway,here are some trustworthily infos

http://www.shaw-brothers-reloaded.com/html/shaw_brothers_fans__betrayed_a.html

Geez, man, isn't that just a bit melodramatic? Surely it's not that much pain and suffering and abuse being deliberately heaped directly on the poor widdo fans of these old movies?

Asian cinema compared to triple-X porn? Niche marketing akin to back-alley drug-peddling? "International contacts" (aka: web-fanboys who think having a contact at a Big Company somehow makes them matter) cut off and ridiculed? There's some salient info in that rant, but otherwise, it sure reads like sour grapes, specious allegations and wishful overestimations of the audience for this stuff.


.

[Mike Thomason]

very different statements, especially about how many movies are really existing. most people write that there are about 200 movies still to be released

Doesn't matter how many, or what the "estimated" figure, of the remaining films to be released was -- the above statement I copied, and link I provided, was DIRECTLY from the Kadokawa/IVL website and I'm sure the company distributing the Shaw library on licence from Celestial would know EXACTLY how many films were being released and the terms and conditions of their licencing contract.

Accordingly, that licencing contract for the territories of HK and Macau ran out at the end of last year -- end of story as far as HK and Macau is concerned for the time being, unless another company licences the existant library (620 titles) and re-release them sometime in the future.

As for the link to "trustworthily infos" (sic); disgracefully poor journalism in the extreme -- poorly written and researched, as well as egocentric and fan-boyish to the point of nausea. Mind you, it was the best laugh I've had all day today. Me thinks some people have an over-developed sense of self/self-importance as well as the commerical viability of niche market film materials -- they're JUST movies.

I agree with Brian -- it reads as nothing more than (poorly researched) sour grapes.

[chiangkamfan]

you think i didn´t laugh?

leave out the overdose fanaticism and the dramatization,it´s just about the facts.

Shaw Brothers Fans: Betrayed and taken for a ride…again!...

no doubt,this is all bullshit.no distributor is beholden to remaster and release movies...

for sure, the writers are fanatical SB movie lovers which cannot live with this matter,but in fact they work really hard and have some good sources.

poorly written ...

maybe i was going to easy.i´ve read it in german,switched to the english site and copied the link
both are germans,maybe their english knowledge is not that good

the existant library (620 titles)

correct me if i´m wrong but wasn´t it about 760 movies at first?

[Brian Thibodeau]

poorly written ...

maybe i was going to easy.i´ve read it in german,switched to the english site and copied the link both are germans,maybe their english knowledge is not that good

Speaking to my own comments about that piece, it was evident that the writer's first language was not English, but beyond an understandable and acceptable level of garbled syntax and spelling goofs, that is still a poor piece of work, for the reasons already mentioned here: it's full of conjecture about the thought processes of executives that the writer doesn't know; it's unnecessarily melodramatic considering the subject matter; it's prone to wishful thinking about the size of the international audience for what is widely known to be niche product; and as mentioned by a couple of times now, it's a bitter bout of sour grapes from someone who appears to have considered himself an important cog when he might not have actually been one.

I understand that it's an editorial, a rant of sorts, but it's an unpleasant reading experience. If that was/is representative of the attitudes of web-based fans of Shaw cinema, small wonder the new regime can't be bothered with them.

Further, these "bright-eyed and bushy-tailed global followers" (his term) received over 600 movies on this first go-round, films they might never have seen at all if it wasn't for Celestial or IVL or Kadokawa or whoever-the-heck-cares-who's-running-the-show at any point in time. What, that's not enough?

I just find it difficult to accept that the "loss" of a 140 additional films (give or take)—which may very well turn up VOD in the future for all anyone knows—is some kind of evil shafting of the purely altruistic widdle bunny-fans like the one who wrote the article.

I have over four-hundred of the available Shaw DVDs and VCDs (thank GOD for price-reduced VCDs, I say). It will be ages before I can get through them all. By then, many of the ones I'm missing PLUS the unreleased 140 +/- will probably be available via some other company or service. And even if they're not, well, those 400-plus titles should provide a respectable overview of the company's output.

And yet, I know I'm not gonna be keeping the majority of them. In a way, I wish the VOD concept would have come along a lot sooner. I'd have a lot less clutter to contend with!

[Mike Thomason]

correct me if i´m wrong but wasn´t it about 760 movies at first?

Yes, that was around the "original" figure -- but it was said right from the start, in media releases by Celestial, that there were a significant number of titles that were in such poor condition the likelihood of them ever being remastered were virtually nil. In fact, if you follow any of the US news, it was revealed last year that the negative for INTIMATE CONFESSIONS OF A CHINESE COURTESAN was in such poor shape that any further attempts to strike new prints from it would undoubtedly destroy it.

There were titles whose negatives were incomplete, in poor shape or beyond a point where anything could be done with them. Companies often buy licences on proxy, product sight unseen -- once the licence has been signed off on it's the new rights owner who has to then do the legwork to ensure they have a product in acceptable condition. So, yes, the library consisted of 760 titles -- but no-one ever said or promised that 760 titles would be released. And due to poor film preservation it was announced very early in the piece that the full catalogue was never going to be released.

NB: I accept that English isn't the writer's first language but, as we've reiterated a number of times now, there is not one iota of professionalism about the piece and that's what has come into question; it reads more like an internet messageboard rant/trolling episode by a spolit little child who didn't get their way rather than a bonafide decent work of journalism. It also paints a very poor, and immature, picture of online Shaw Brothers fans in general...

[KMGor]

One thing I'm not clear on - does this mean I should be concerned about the existing DVDs becoming difficult to find? There are tons of Shaw Bros. films I'd love to get that they've released, but I simply can't afford to get them all right now.

I am but a poor student.



And as a final note, other than the audio alterations they did a nearly universally beautiful job on the film restorations. I'm glad they got out as much as they did.

[Brian Thibodeau]

One thing I'm not clear on - does this mean I should be concerned about the existing DVDs becoming difficult to find? There are tons of Shaw Bros. films I'd love to get that they've released, but I simply can't afford to get them all right now.

I am but a poor student.

Haven't some of these already gone out-of-print? Can't remember if I read that here or somewhere else. I'm sure if that is the case, there will be more becoming unavailable as time goes on, at least until they surface again via re-releases or alternate media. If you live in or near a big city, however, never rule out your local Chinatown. There's a couple of places here that have extensive inventories of IVL Shaw discs (including some stuff I no longer see available online), few of which ever sold like gangbusters after the first few waves. The stuff just sits there, and it's a bit overpriced, but sooner or later, they'll have to start marking it down. You might find the same thing in your area . . .

[cal42]

Yes, quite a few of the titles are no longer available (at least in DVD format). I never thought of trying an actual SHOP, though . Mind you, the nearest decent Chinatown for me is London, and their prices are pretty ridiculous (around £25 a film, as opposed to about £8 online) and the return train fare's about £60. Not really economically viable, but I may have a look next time I'm down there if I'm really desperate.

[Chungking_Cash]

I've wanted to see "Bamboo House of Dolls" for years and now the VCD seems to no longer be available for purchase. Drats, no Ebay listing either.

I realize the film is available on DVD again (I think HKFlix recently restocked the title) but I never purchase films I haven't seen on DVD for monetary reasons.

Gotta love VCDs!

[KMGor]

One thing I'm not clear on - does this mean I should be concerned about the existing DVDs becoming difficult to find? There are tons of Shaw Bros. films I'd love to get that they've released, but I simply can't afford to get them all right now.

I am but a poor student.

Haven't some of these already gone out-of-print? Can't remember if I read that here or somewhere else. I'm sure if that is the case, there will be more becoming unavailable as time goes on, at least until they surface again via re-releases or alternate media. If you live in or near a big city, however, never rule out your local Chinatown. There's a couple of places here that have extensive inventories of IVL Shaw discs (including some stuff I no longer see available online), few of which ever sold like gangbusters after the first few waves. The stuff just sits there, and it's a bit overpriced, but sooner or later, they'll have to start marking it down. You might find the same thing in your area . . .

That is unfortunate. I live in Saint Louis, and apart from a few Chinese markets with bootleg tapes and a Vietnamese shop that went out of business, I've never seen any decent places for Hong Kong film. If someone knows of one, I'd love to hear about it

I am going to Manhattan though, and there's this one shop that had a quite extensive collection of the import discs. If I recall correctly, they're priced at around $10-$12 per DVD and $3-$6 for VCDs, which is quite reasonable.

That said, at least there is eBay. These discs were sold in large enough quantities that it will be a long time, if ever, before most are worth anything.

[cal42]

[quote="KMGor"][quote="Brian Thibodeau"]
I am going to Manhattan though, and there's this one shop that had a quite extensive collection of the import discs. If I recall correctly, they're priced at around $10-$12 per DVD and $3-$6 for VCDs, which is quite reasonable.
[quote]

That's VERY reasonable, and I wish I'd stumbled on that shop when I was there - I probably would have used all my holiday money in the one place!

[Brian Thibodeau]

I've wanted to see "Bamboo House of Dolls" for years and now the VCD seems to no longer be available for purchase. Drats, no Ebay listing either.

I realize the film is available on DVD again (I think HKFlix recently restocked the title) but I never purchase films I haven't seen on DVD for monetary reasons.

Gotta love VCDs!

Nice to hear this! I read people griping about VCDs at other forums and I just scratch my head. I mean, I realize they aren't as good as DVD, but beggars can't be choosers, and for the most part, the Shaw VCDs are very well done (and usually with the original mono soundtracks), and if you just want to see the bloody things, well . . . There are so many Hong Kong movies that haven't been put on DVD yet, but are still available on VCD, that one has to wonder if Hong Kong distributors will ever see the point in taking a big leap into Blu-Ray, especially considering the quality of much of the source material.

Considering many of these films are NEW to a lot of the people who are buying them (leaving out the lifelong kung-fu fans for a moment!), then $3 - $6 US for a VCD is more than fair. And if those shops in New York are anything like the ones here in Toronto, over the long haul they don't want the stuff just sitting around collecting dust, and so the right visit on the right day might get you even better prices. That's probably one of the reasons I could contribute as many posts to the 2007 Digital Scrounge thread here as I did. I just lucked out with three or four places that were clearancing tonnes of old VCDs (good stuff and bad) for under $2 a pop, and DVDs for about $5 each. This year it's been hit and miss, but there are still some goodies here and there.

That is unfortunate. I live in Saint Louis, and apart from a few Chinese markets with bootleg tapes and a Vietnamese shop that went out of business, I've never seen any decent places for Hong Kong film. If someone knows of one, I'd love to hear about it

I am going to Manhattan though, and there's this one shop that had a quite extensive collection of the import discs. If I recall correctly, they're priced at around $10-$12 per DVD and $3-$6 for VCDs, which is quite reasonable.

The biggest problem is finding the time to properly scour a Chinatown (or better yet, the Chinaburbs), and the trip from St. Louis to Manhattan probably doesn't help. I used to have a three-hour drive to Toronto, and the visits weren't long enough for me to properly find most of these little bargain bin places. Mind you, if I'd had a full week here, things might have been different. Moving here helped, of course . . .

I'm kinda surprised a city the size of St. Louis doesn't have a fairly decent Chinatown, either in it's downtown area or out in the suburbs somewhere. Your mention of a Vietnamese place could be a sign that your Chinatown has become too too diluted for its original inhabitants (as all such immigrant enclaves inevitably become for some folks), and that they have another area somewhere more upscale. Just a thought. The downtown Chinatown here still has a lot of great Chinese shops and Chinese flavour, but the ethnic makeup is increasingly Vietnamese. Head way north where the neighbourhoods are much more affluent, and suddenly you discover where so many of the Chinese people went!

One thing to keep in mind, and apologies if this is stating the obvious, is that sometimes the movies aren't just in movie/CD shops or movie rental places. Often you'll find them in gift shops, mixed-media shops, stationery shops and sometimes even dinky little housewares shops where you'd never know they sold them by looking at the front of the store. Just a possibility . . .

[KMGor]

I'm kinda surprised a city the size of St. Louis doesn't have a fairly decent Chinatown

You'd be amazed what St. Louis doesn't have. It's an OK town, but really, it's probably my least favorite of the larger cities I've extensively been in.

is that sometimes the movies aren't just in movie/CD shops or movie rental places. Often you'll find them in gift shops, mixed-media shops

Yeah, the one area I looked at (the only place I know of in the metro area with a handful of Asian shops), there were grocery stores that sold some stuff. They had some legitimate Tai Seng VHS tapes, but almost no DVDs and most of their stock was bootleg VHS. And a lot of the boots had no English on them either, heh.

That's VERY reasonable, and I wish I'd stumbled on that shop when I was there

I can't remember its name, but it was the only DVD shop I saw in Chinatown that actually had more legit DVDs than bootlegs (had both, but mostly legit). I might be off on the price, and that was a 2 or 3 years ago, but it was definitely under $15 for most of the remastered SB DVDs. One other interesting thing about the shop - you didn't have to pay sales tax if you paid in cash.

In New York, that's a pretty nice deal actually.

I read people griping about VCDs at other forums and I just scratch my head.

I do buy VCDs, but in fast moving action scenes they macroblock enough that it can be quite distracting. I'd actually prefer a VHS tape over a VCD because of that. But yeah, when they're sometimes well under $5, I can't complain.

[Brian Thibodeau]

One other interesting thing about the shop - you didn't have to pay sales tax if you paid in cash.

In New York, that's a pretty nice deal actually.

Same here in Toronto, and with those of us in Ontario (the province wherein Toronto sits) paying 14% in sales taxes on nearly everything, it's a BIG savings . Woe is the person, usually a gweilo who hasn't visited before, who whips out a credit card or debit card in a Chinese business nearly anywhere in this town, save for the restaurants, and even then, there are places . . .!

[pjshimmer]

because of not much profit with the sales.

I don't know what made them think it would be profitable in the first place? I was under the impression that in the 2000s there isn't much demand for Shaw Brothers. When they announced the plan to acquire the entire SB library in 2000 or 2001, I thought it was rather unfathomable business.

Was it the lack of understanding the culture? In the West, classic movies are revered by many, and can be profitable when remastered to the market. But in Asia, people seem to be less nostalgic. They want the newest hot thing now, not something from the past. Asians frequently refer to a movie from the 90s as "really old", and it is carried with a negative connotation. You can imagine how interested they'd be in movies from the 70s.

[Chungking_Cash]

Was it the lack of understanding the culture? In the West, classic movies are revered by many, and can be profitable when remastered to the market. But in Asia, people seem to be less nostalgic. They want the newest hot thing now, not something from the past. Asians frequently refer to a movie from the 90s as "really old", and it is carried with a negative connotation. You can imagine how interested they'd be in movies from the 70s.

In 2001, I took a course on South Korean cinema for my minor and when I showed my syllabus to a [Korean] friend he wondered aloud why I would want to see "White Badge" (1992) because it was sooo old.

In regards to "newest hot thing now" I also noticed none of my Korean friends ever wanted to see anything more than once, either. They talked animatedly about "JSA" (in fact said friend served there) but when I purchased the DVD and invited them over more than one of them declined on the grounds that they had already seen it as if each individual film was a one time experience.

Or perhaps, after its first birthday "JSA" was now an old timer and this particular group of Korean exchange students could be watching the newest hottest thing instead.

[pjshimmer]

Was it the lack of understanding the culture? In the West, classic movies are revered by many, and can be profitable when remastered to the market. But in Asia, people seem to be less nostalgic. They want the newest hot thing now, not something from the past. Asians frequently refer to a movie from the 90s as "really old", and it is carried with a negative connotation. You can imagine how interested they'd be in movies from the 70s.

In 2001, I took a course on South Korean cinema for my minor and when I showed my syllabus to a [Korean] friend he wondered aloud why I would want to see "White Badge" (1992) because it was sooo old.

In regards to "newest hot thing now" I also noticed none of my Korean friends ever wanted to see anything more than once, either. They talked animatedly about "JSA" (in fact said friend served there) but when I purchased the DVD and invited them over more than one of them declined on the grounds that they had already seen it as if each individual film was a one time experience.

Nice to hear another real life experience.

We frequently think of Hollywood film-goers viewing films as entertainment and not art, but seeing how disposable films are to the Oriental generation X, it makes American culture look pretty good -- at least people are still occasionally talking about Lord of the Rings.

I guess that's one down side of being the centre of innovation -- everything becomes disposable.