Rewatching this one on DVD brings back my first impression that B&CS was one of the best 'swordplay' HK films from the 90's. I recommend another look.<br><br>

Actually I just watched it for the first time last week, and I must say, it really lacked a decent plot/storyline. The actions weren't bad, but not good either. Whenever you bring the imperial government into a period movie, it is mostly likely that a messed up storyline/plot will occur. The best thing about "Butterfly Sword" AKA "Comet, Butterfly, and Sword" would have to be the music at the end. Other than that, I thought it was among the worst of HK period movies ever.<br><br>

It really puzzles me when people fuss over wu'xia (flying people) films lacking in plot or being incoherent, or even suffering bad acting.<br><br>So what ? Wu'xia is eye candy. Flashing colour and movement and fast action and gorgeous people. If the acting's good, that's a bonus. If the plot makes sense, that may of may not be a good thing - think of great "confusers" like Kung Fu Cult Master and Maidens Of Heavenly Mountains - who cares about the plot of these ?<br><br>In contrast, if anyone can provide examples of entertaining films of this type, where the plots are perfectly clear, pls post it here. It'd be a novel experience to see them.<br><br>

Well, I do recognize that most Foreigners (Americans, Hispanic, etc) who are into Martial arts/Kung Fu movies, especially the earlier efforts like Bruce Lee and Shaw Bros, generally could careless about the plot. Yes, good action is a vital part of a kung fu movie, but it is not all that matters; many elements make a good movie. While there are many who don't feel the need for a good plot, I just cannot say the same for myself. All classic/sucessful kung fu (or of any genre) films (namely Once Upon A Time in China, Fong Sai Yuk, Drunken Master II) have a decent plot; that is a must-have. I really don't know when I got so picky about plots and storylines - I used to enjoy the plain action and that is it! But now I guess I'm more "mature" and cares about more aspects in order for a movie to be considered well-made.<br><br>I first saw Kung Fu Colt Master when I was 13 or so; that was nearly 4 years ago, at which time I had come to America for more than a year and have NOT seen any Chinese movie for that long, period. (you can imagine how much I was craving for some good ol' martial arts gem!) Anyway, I found a couple of Chinese flicks, such as FONG SAI YUK II (which would become my favorite of all time DISPITE a lack of perfect plot), SHANGHAI GRAND, TREASURE HUNT (chow yun fat), AND KUNG FU COLT MASTER. And you know what, I just LOVED all those flicks right then. I didn't criticize Kung fu colt master because its plot sucked (in fact, I remembered every single word of the 5 minute prolugue for the movie!!!); all I was looking for were good characters and good fights, and perhaps good acting somewhere along the way. But now going back to watch all these videos that were no different from what I saw 4 years ago, I did notice some changes in my personal opinion about these movies. It just wasn't the same as what I saw 4 years ago. Back when I was living in China, about 7 years ago, while I was sitting on the couch watching kung fu/period films (those were the good times), the word "plot" never occured to me. In fact, I don't think I really understood what the word meant until I was in America. (where obviously movies didn't need and most of 'em certainly don't have, a plot)<br><br>All in all, I can totally understand if you don't give a rat about plots and storylines in movies. What I think is that no matter the genre, a good plot in a film will always serve as a buttress, making a good movie even better.<br><br>

Another thing is, when I am watching a movie and can't follow what's going on at all, it makes me really wanna turn off the TV. There just isn't any excitement without a well-planned storyline, not even with super great action. That's how I felt as I was watching Butterfly Sword, Green Snake, Ashes of Time, Swordsman I & II, Fist of Legend, Legend of the Liquid Sword, The Blacksheep Affair, Sword of Many Loves and such. A lot of frustrations arouse from movies that don't make much sense, and when that happens a lot of fun is taken away and it makes me shake my head afterwards.<br><br>Of course, the only exception I can think of is the comedy catagory. Really funny stuff don't necessarily need a plot; just laugh along and enjoy the flick. Other than that though, a good movie and a bad movie can often be disguished by how well the plot is.<br><br>

Gawsakes, two people who have memorized the prologue, and claim to make perfect sense of KFCM.<br><br>A summary would be far too long to post on one of these forums. For the many of us who are still baffled, how about posting an explanation/deconstruction on a website, and posting the link here ?<br><br>And, just on the off chance that you also understood Maidens Of Heavenly Mountains (a.k.a Semi Gods and Semi Devils), I'd love to hear what THAt was about too !<br><br>

You are absolutely right, a lot of those films like Swordsman, Kung Fu Cult Master, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, Tai-Chi Master, Ashes of Time and Legend of the Liquid Sword were indeed adapted from series and/or novels, or vice versa (It's safe to say that some series were made after and under same title as Shaw Bros movies). I should mention that for the majority of these adaptions, they're no where NEAR AS GOOD as the series. Even the better adaptions like Swordsman 1 & 2 are no match for the original series! Anyway, it doesn't really help though to have seen the series in which a badly made movie without a plot is adapted from, like Kung Fu Colt Master, because they totally change the storyline in the scripts and you really wouldn't know it was based on a TV series even if you had seen both just now! That is, if I didn't tell you they were related. And if you have seen the top-notch "Condor Heroes" series in the early eighties, I'm sure you'd agree that Ashes of Time, one of its later adaptions, had almost a 100% different story of itself. It did retain some characters from the original series but everything else, War Kai Wong kinda took 2 minutes while peeing, used his imaginations and decided to use them for his next great hit. Honestly though, I can't understand why such big stars as Brigitte Lin, Tony Leung, Jacky Cheung and Leslie Cheung would even go near the set after reading the horrible "script", if you call it one.<br><br>P.S. I used to be able to read one FULL novel in less than a day. I'm talking about like 300 page Gu Long wuxia novels (Eagles fly in September). I was so into wuxia/period novels that my family had to ban all related books and lock them into drawers! They wouldn't let me watch too many wuxia series on TV either <br><br>

By the way, do you know the name of the lead actor who plays Zhang Wu Ji in the series HEAVEN SABRE AND DRAGON SWORD (=kfcm)? That guy is a very famous star who has played numerous leads in dramas and romantic TV series. Unfortunately, most of his roles were as bad guys, with only a few exceptions. (and HSDS is one of them) I was just wondering if you knew his name. I don't think he did many movies at all though.<br><br>

First of all, I never said anything about KFCM making perfect sense. In fact I'm the one who mentioned that it didn't make much sense, although not as confusing as e.g. Legend of the Liquid Sword.<br><br>One thing to always keep in mind when reading my materials is that I am Chinese (one of the few mainland natives here), and I can speak/write/understand/read simplified and traditional Chinese rather well still. So for me, memorizing the prologue to KFCM was quite easy after watching it over and over a couple of times. But for foreigners, I'd imagine it being of a slight more difficulties; it'd be like me memorizing words to an Italian opera - which BTW I would not even try!<br><br>Well now just for reference to the series = KFCM, which is mostly known as "Heaven Sabre and Dragon Sword", the story there still involves around Zhang Wu Ji, however, I was not aware of the fact that he was the grandson of Zhang San Feng. (better known as 'Jumbo' in the Tai-Chi Master) Anyway, and this is off my somewhat misleading memory, something happens to him and he is brought to Muo Jiao (evil sect), and eventually becomes the master there. Meanwhile and before that takes place though, he meets a lot of women, some of whom are students of other clans and sects; others simply wanderers. Anyway, I think he was betrayed by a few of them, and some of these females die along the way. But that's the early part of the show. In the later half, Zhang becomes the mater of the evil sect and has a lover, but there are some resistence and resentment within. And guess who the leader of these local rebels is - Zhu Ruan Zhang - who would become the first emperor of the next Chinese dynasty, which the sect was trying to overthrow anyway. Anyway, Zhu Ruan Zhang eventually takes over the position of master and Zhang Wu Ji and his lover is forced to flead, after Zhu Ruan Zhang has made evil, bad rumours about them. Fortunately for them, one of their 'grand tutors' finally saw Zhu Ruan Zhang's lies and helped Zhang reclaim back his master position. Zhu Ruan Zhang became THIS CLOSE from being stabbed in the chest, in the series anyway, but Zhang Wu Ji spared him. Of course at the end, Zhu Ruan Zhang commanded armies and overthrew the Yuan dynasty and established the Ming dynasty in China.<br><br>**** I just noticed a mistake I made: Zhu RUAN Zhang is in fact supposed to be: Zhu YUAN Zhang. I just didn't wanna change every word above.<br><br>Anyway I'll try to describe a little bit of Maidens of Heavenly Mountains, which is, if you didn't know, based on a well-known wuxia series that's been remade several times and shown in China more than any other wuxia series in the 90s.<br><br>

I've heard often that local (HK) audiences especially hated the ending of KFCM, and this has been cited as the reason for no sequel being made. of course, the ending was clearly signalling a sequel.<br>PJ's comments seem to give just a peek at why HK audiences hated it so.<br>But it still doesn't stop non-Chinese fans like myself wishing that a sequel would be made.<br><br>And, on that subject, am I the only one still waitng for Chinese Ghost Story IV ?<br><br>

OK the movie aka Dragon Chronicles and Semi gods semi devils is basically pretty screwed up as far as plot went. Basically, there are 3 maidens on the mountain, who never turned old and were not effected by age. They used to be friends but their brother (in student/clan terms) distrusts one or 2 of them, and that's when all 3 kinda started the feud. Of course, two (Brigigte Lin)of the 3 maidens are twins, one evil one good. The other one, played by Gong Li, is madly in love with/obsessed (but not in a lesbian manner) the good maiden of the twins, and wishes to reunite with her, but the brother wouldn't let her. That's basically what was said in the prologue. After that, the evil maiden of the twins' "students" invaded the Shaolin Temple. There a student named Xu Zhu (only character adapted from the series) escapes and befriends with Cheung Man's character, who is kinda ambitious and wacky/slick as in all her characters, who is also a student of the student of the evil maiden (get it?). Anyway together they betrays the evil student of the maid and tricks the maid based on what they were told by the other maiden(Gong Li). Anyway, the supreme brother of the maidens wants to transmit all his power to Xu Zhu, which was not an idea liked by the evil student of the maiden. He kills the brother and vows to destroy everyone and thus becoming the ruler of the mountain. At the end, the good maid of the twin is dead somehow, and both other maidens feel guilty and decide to become allies one more time and together with Cheung Man and Xu Zhu's help, they destroy the evil student.<br><br>...You understood all that, right? =)<br><br>Anyway the series is much more original and definitely BETTER. In that, Duan Yu, one of my pre-favorite characters of all time (last year when I rewatched the series I found that he changed quite a bit..), is supposed to be the main character. But the series didn't make much sense either because he was not really mentioned after the first half of the series; nothing was told of what happened to him. Another somewhere in the middle Duan Yu meets a decent man from the Beggars' Association, Qiao Feng, who is mostly remembered in the series, and befriends him. From there, Qiao Feng meets Xu Zhu (character in Semi Gods movie mentioned above) and a bunch of other people and together on some nonsense adventures. I think at the end Qiao Feng jumps off a bridge because well, earlier he killed Duan Yu's father's daughter, whose sister he promised to marry. So he married her just for that promise but neither is happy, especially the bitchy sister who is annoy is hell and is eventually responsible for Qiao Feng's jumping off a cliff or bridge. Anyway, after that, I'm not too sure what happens but I think Duan Yu returns to the show. Of course, there are a million things unmentioned here, like a prince-looking guy named Mu Ron Fu and the 4 Devils. But anyway go buy the VCDs of the series if any of what I said intrigued you <br><br>

Ta very much. That's now totally clear - I've pasted it into the plot summary, to help all the other confused fans.<br><br>I, for one, would love to watch more of the wuxia TV series. Problems are several -<br>1. They're much harder to get than movies.<br>2. None of them are subbed or dubbed.<br><br>Lack of subs isn't such a big problem with a movie (well, sometimes it is). But for a TV series......<br><br>

I wouldn't say it did so bad in HK theaters - in fact, I think it grossed more $ than that of Tai-Chi Master, which is usually considered a success. But yeah, the series is so much better than KFCM.<br><br>

Hey stonemonkey, if ever you do get access to the filmstock for KFCM2 and you need a hand, ask me too !<br><br>

You must be talking about "Killer Clans" by the Shaw Brothers. I haven't seen that one yet, but the print is so bad that I don't think I can see any of the action, even if there are some good scenes of such.<br><br>

Everything you said is correct. Yes, Ming is Ri + Yue. However, I just want to remind everybody that this TV serie is mostly fictional, and history probably did not have Zhu Ruan Zhang, the founder of Ming Dynasty, part of Ming Jiao/sect. Most Chinese movies and tv series tend to involve some historical political stories, but most of them are not based on any reliable sources. I.E. the writer simply put a bunch of historical characters with some fictional people and makes excellent stories, which I have nothing against.<br><br>