More talk about oldies.

[dleedlee]

Moving a discussion from the Changes/Addition forum:

http://www.hkmdb.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=39991#39991


ciakmull - re the FAMILY/SPRING/AUTUMN trilogy, layoyo still has it:

http://www.layoyo.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce ... 1&curr=USD
Mind the s/h cost, probably works out to roughly the same price compared to yesasia.

Cathay's Devotion is now released, no English subs listed (at layoyo). No listing at yesasia, that I could find.

Don't know if there is any connection between the two Rose films, TEAR-LADEN ROSE and REVIVED ROSE. Lousy cover, looked like a weepy, so I held off for the moment on Revived Rose.

Udine/Chor Yuen retrospective - lucky you!

[ciakmull]

the FAMILY/SPRING/AUTUMN trilogy, layoyo still has it:

They have also Chor Yuen's Wise Wives and Foolish Husbands, a vcd that I cannot locate on YesAsia.

Cathay's Devotion is now released, no English subs listed (at layoyo). No listing at yesasia, that I could find.

They previewed the first Cathay releases withouth subtitles too, so I'm optmistic... I'm checking everyday Panorama official webiste (http://www.panorama.com.hk) hoping for good news.

There are several movies I really would like to see but I'm afraid they aren't available on vcd... Ng Wui's Father and Son, Lee Sun-fung's Cold Nights, Chor Yuen's Remorse and Joys and Sorrows of Youth, Lung Kong's Story of a Discharged Prisoner and Teddy Girls, Chan Wan's Social Characters, Hung Suk Wan's A Girl Named Liang Lengyan, Tong Tik-Sang's Hongling's Blood, Chan Lit Ban's Green Eyed Demoness and The One-Armed Magic Nun. Do you know if they've been released on vcd?

By the way, do you have a cantonese favourite director? I'm now after Chu Kei and Ng Wui works, but I'm also really interested in fantasy / adventure films, as the wuxia directed by Ling Yun (you're right, Supreme Sword is really interesting) and Chan Lit Ban, or minor titles as How Princess Iron-Fan Burnt Down the Heavenly Gate.

[dleedlee]

They have also Chor Yuen's Wise Wives and Foolish Husbands, a vcd that I cannot locate on YesAsia.

I picked that up a while back from layoyo. Pretty funny, sort of like the Lucky Seven films if you've seen them. Layoyo often has films that yesasia doesn't carry, not sure why. I haven't used layoyo lately but might soon, their prices are really good for the oldies even factoring in shipping.

I wrote layoyo about the subs on DEVOTION and got a prompt reply from their business office: "I need to ask by supplier first, when i get any news for this item, i will notify you."


By the way, do you have a cantonese favourite director? I'm now after Chu Kei and Ng Wui works, but I'm also really interested in fantasy / adventure films, as the wuxia directed by Ling Yun (you're right, Supreme Sword is really interesting) and Chan Lit Ban, or minor titles as How Princess Iron-Fan Burnt Down the Heavenly Gate.

A favorite? That's too hard to say. I do like Chu Kei and Ng Wui. Mok Hong See is another, Lee Tit, though most famous for his opera films, his dramas are just as excellent. Lee Sun-Fung (House of Kam Topples,So Siu Siu, Spring,Orioles Song). I just finishing up a short write up for So Siu Siu, wow! I'll post when the db comes back up, but I think you've seen it already?

I recently picked up the Princess Iron Fan film, but haven't watched it yet.

One fantasy/musical film I just watched is A Beauty's Head is Misplaced with Leung Sing Bo based on story from the classic Strange Tales from A Chinese Studio. A bit too much musical dialogue for me but still very fun and Leung Sing Bo is a hoot as the benevolent spirit of Judge Luk.

I haven't found those films you listed, either. And I've been looking too.

[ciakmull]

I couldn't resist, I just placed an order from Layoyo with the trilogy boxset... I bought also few cantonese movies trying my luck: except for Broadcast Prince (another classic that I cannot find on YesAsia) and Wise Wives and Foolish Husbands (I'm curious because Edmond Pang's Men Suddenly in Black should be its remake, and I liked a lot this movie) they're all minor titles like Hongling Solves the Mystery Case or the two episodes of Liu Yu Sends His Letters. I'll let you know if I've been lucky enough!

I bought also this title, Guang Chang Long (http://global.yesasia.com/en/PrdDept.aspx/pid-1002840417/did-0/code-c/section-videos/), but I cannot identify it for sure... could it be The Ghost that Created an Uproar in Guangchanglong (http://www.hkmdb.com/db/movies/view.mhtml?id=1501&complete_credits=1&display_set=eng)?

"Iron Fan" is quite similar to Ho Meng Hua's Journey to the West reductions made for Shaw Bros, but the production values between the two movies cannot absolutely be compared. Chan Cheuk Sang, as Wu Pang (who have been included in HK Monographs by HK Film Archive) or Cheung Wai Gwong, seems another underrated director which work needs further studies.

[dleedlee]

I bought also this title, Guang Chang Long (http://global.yesasia.com/en/PrdDept.aspx/pid-1002840417/did-0/code-c/section-videos/), but I cannot identify it for sure... could it be The Ghost that Created an Uproar in Guangchanglong (http://www.hkmdb.com/db/movies/view.mhtml?id=1501&complete_credits=1&display_set=eng)?

It's actually Dunce Bumps into a Ghost (1957) aka Kwong Chang Long.
I've just added the Big5 as an alias. I recall now it took me a long time to figure out what the title was, using collaborations. It's a little easier now with the newer tools available.

Been meaning to pick up Broadcast Prince, too. Whenever I get to ordering from layoyo I'll get it and Waste Not Our Youth is only at layoyo.

Chan Cheuk Sang, as Wu Pang (who have been included in HK Monographs by HK Film Archive) or Cheung Wai Gwong, seems another underrated director which work needs further studies

Agreed, I seem to be collecting their films too. They sure were cranking them out back then weren't they? I don't recall them in the Monographs, I will have to go back and review. Do you have the Border Crossings volume?
How is it? Worth picking up? I'm ready for another book order! (even if my VISA isn't)

[ciakmull]

Do you have the Border Crossings volume?
How is it? Worth picking up? I'm ready for another book order! (even if my VISA isn't)

I answered you some time ago in the other forum room, when you asked me a scan of the index page:


That's what I wrote:
«I didn't read the catalogue yet, so I cannot say how it is. But all the HKIFF publications I saw are really accurate and interesting. I'm now reading the old catalogues focused on old cantonese cinema, my actual passion... and they're really good (and frustrating: I would like to see all those movies but I'm not able to find a lot of them). My question is: there aren't catalogues after 2000? The last one available at HKIFF website (where I buy usually Hong Kong books) is "Border Crossings".»

It's actually Dunce Bumps into a Ghost (1957) aka Kwong Chang Long.

Thank you, I checked the HK Filmography Vol IV and it seems that you're right. The synopsis seems interesting... Did you see the movie?

Agreed, I seem to be collecting their films too.

There are directors (Lee Tit, Ng Wui, Chan Pei, Chu Kei and many more) which movies are easy to find on vcd. And there are other directors as Lung Fong or Zhu Shilin, which movies aren't still available. I wonder why...

How do you chose the old titles to buy? I'm buying above all 50s movies so I can read the synopsis on the books I have and try to follow the story...

[dleedlee]

Sorry, ciakmull, I don't recall your original reply. Thanks for reposting.
I wonder if the chapter on Taiwan discusses Li Han-Hsiang short stay there?

Some of the publications are HKIFF and others are HKFA. HKFA has a recent issued volume on Lee Sun-Fung/Li Chenfeng, so that's must get for me. Also the English version of the Chang Cheh volume. Unfortunately, they didn't include his reviews from the Chinese edition. But shipping and handling is expensive so I get a few more to offset the costs. Makes sense, huh? Check the top of the page for the various categories at the HKIFF site. Earlier this year I wrote to the HKFA and inquired about a next volume on the '60s and they said vol.5 was due for this fall. I don't know if that's true or not, I hope so.

Dunce is not bad. Leung Sing Po is good, Tis Lo-Lin is beautiful and Lau Hark Suen is still evil. It's been awhile since I watched it. The picture is not in great shape I think. Not a disappointment, maybe I will rewatch tonight to refresh my memory.

How do I choose? That's a hard one. Easier to say how do I exclude!

In fact, anymore, if it's from Pearl City, it's surefire. Most of the United films are from Pearl City. They are trustworthy. Only one disappointment was Rhythm of the Wave, a Siao Fong Fong romance film made in Taiwan that I didn't notice was in Mandarin when I ordered it. My own fault, I guess.

Stars: I have a lot of favorites I can't resist: Cheung Ying,Connie,Josephine,Leung Sing Bo,Ma Sze Tsang,Sun Ma.Lee Heung Kam,Lydia,Yam Kim Fai etc, etc - any of the The United group basically

New ones I want to see more of: Tang Kei Chan, Tang Bik Wan,Cheng Pik Ying,Yu So Chau,Sit Kok Sin

Directors: too many, Chor Yuen,of course,Ng Hui,Mok Hong See,Lee Tit, any associated with United

Genres: comedy and melodrama, first; martial arts second; musical,opera, (generally in order of how easy it is for me to understand)

Winson and China Art as previously noted are getting worse it seems, cutting here, cutting there. Or maybe I'm more aware of it. Last night, I watched Princess Iron Fan Burns Down the Heavenly Gate. According to the HKFA, it should be in color, but it's not on the vcd version. Possible that they are wrong I suppose.

Enough for now.

[ciakmull]

I wonder if the chapter on Taiwan discusses Li Han-Hsiang short sting there?

I'm afraid not so much as you hope; at first sight it seems focused much more on Pan Lei and Chang Cheh. It's mainly an essay about Taiwan market, its commercial development during pre and post war years and cinematographic collaborations with other countries (not only Hong Kong but also China, Japan, USA, Korea, and so on...).

I watched Princess Iron Fan Burns Down the Heavenly Gate. According to the HKFA, it should be in color, but it's not on the vcd version. Possible that they are wrong I suppose.

I hope it's an HKFA mistake. I saw that someone (you?) changed the title in the db entry. I know that China Art, Winson and Tien Feng releases are not the best, but as you said if it's the only chance to see a movie... I bought the dvd version of Jade in the Red Dust, I didn't see the movie yet but I cannot understand if it's complete. The total duration on the back cover is over 250 minutes, but it seems that the two dvds contain just Part 1 and Part 2, without the Grand Finale. Can you enlighten me?

Reading your post I would like to buy more Union movies. Can you suggest me some good title released on vcd? Do you know if the company filmography on the db is complete and reliable? I used until now as reference the brief essay on HKIFF Catalogue "Cantonese Cinema Restrospective (1960-69)".

Another question for an expert like you... checking my Layoyo order I saw that I ordered The Beauty Who Lived Through Great Changes. According to both Hong Kong Filmography Vol. IV and db it's a MP&GI (Cathay) movie. Is it possible?

[dleedlee]

hope it's an HKFA mistake. I saw that someone (you?) changed the title in the db entry. I know that China Art, Winson and Tien Feng releases are not the best, but as you said if it's the only chance to see a movie...
Yes, I did that. It's been bugging me lately that the color films from the '50s and early '60s aren't somehow noted. Right now, there's nowhere to indicate that information. Like Lee Tit's operas from the late '50s, it's important to know, especially for shoppers. The covers are often unreliable to base judgement.

I bought the dvd version of Jade in the Red Dust, I didn't see the movie yet but I cannot understand if it's complete. The total duration on the back cover is over 250 minutes, but it seems that the two dvds contain just Part 1 and Part 2, without the Grand Finale. Can you enlighten me?

I think that's a case of Winson chopping things up. I held off on that title because as you say, it's a three part film but only two parts.
I saw a title yesterday that was ror sale but in fact, the hkmdb lists as a two parter. So only one part was available. It seems the situation is getting worse and not better. So caveat emptor.

Reading your post I would like to buy more Union movies. Can you suggest me some good title released on vcd? Do you know if the company filmography on the db is complete and reliable? I used until now as reference the brief essay on HKIFF Catalogue "Cantonese Cinema Restrospective (1960-69)".

I think it's complete. There are only about 42-43 films produced under that banner according to my reading. My personal goal is to try and see every one of them. You can see the list from the db here. I'll mark with a '*' you might like that I've seen:

* Family (1953)
Sisters' Tragic Love, The (1953)
* Guiding Light, The (1953)
Two Heroic Rivals (1953)
Things of the Past (1953)
* Myriad Homes, A (1953)
* In the Face of Demolition (1953)
* Spring (1953)
Father and Son (1954)
* Autumn (1954)
Big Thunderstorm (1954)
* Sworn Sisters (1954)
Love (Part 1) (1955)
Love (Part 2) (1955)
* Orphan's Tragedy, An (1955)
Cold Nights (1955)
* Parents' Hearts (1955)
* Everlasting Love (1955)
We Owe It to Our Children (1955)
Broken Spring Dreams (1955)
Romance at the Western Chamber (1956) opera
Wall, The (1956)
Precious Lotus Lamp, The (1956)
Beauty Raised from the Dead (1956)
Lotus Lamp, The (The Sequel) (1957)
Taking the Birthday Gifts Caravan by Strategy (1957)
- in the pile, haven't seen yet
Blood and Gold (1957)
Adultery (1958)
Beautiful Girl at War, A (1958)
Lotus Lantern, The (Part 3) (1958)
Murderer in Town (1958)
* Autumn Comes to Purple Rose Garden (1958)
Rent a Bride (1958)
Money (1959)
Road, The (1959)
Cruel Husband, The (1959)
Sketch of Humanity, A (1959)
Humanity (1960)
Cruel Hand, The (1960)
Wonderful Partner, The (1960)
We Want to Live (1960)
Long Live the Money (1961)
God of Wealth (1962)
Vampire Woman (1962)
Sea (1963)
House of Murders, The (1963)
* Bloody Paper Man, The (1964)
Under Hong Kong's Roof (1964)

I've bolded a couple you might overlook that are not often mentioned.


Another question for an expert like you... checking my Layoyo order I saw that I ordered The Beauty Who Lived Through Great Changes. According to both Hong Kong Filmography Vol. IV and db it's a MP&GI (Cathay) movie. Is it possible?

I've seen that also over at yesasia but held off. The comment wasn't positive. I suppose I won't be able to resist. And for 4.99 what's to lose besides 4.99? I haven't verified that it's a MP&GI title but assume it's correct. I can check, or you can, if you have the Cathay volume. [edit] Yep, it's listed.

[dleedlee]

I just noticed that yesasia has a new listing for a Chor Yuen comedy:
化身情人 Hua Shen Qing Ren - Lover in Disguise (1965), stars Cheung Ying Tsoi and Nam Hung. Woo hoo!

If it's anywhere near as good as A Fatal Adventure (1966) or Diary of a Chauvinistic Husband, Pt 2 (1964), both with the same trio, I'll be very, very satisfied.

ciakmull - do you have your PM turned on in your profile? I've sent you some test PMs but they just sit in my outbox not sent.

[ciakmull]

I think it's complete. [...] You can see the list from the db here. I'll mark with a '*' you might like that I've seen:

Thank you very much. Now I'm too after the Union movies... I received few days ago Sworn Sisters and Lee Tit's Everlasting Love.

I haven't verified that it's a MP&GI title but assume it's correct.

I checked, I confirm that's really a Cathay movie. I wonder if there're other cantonese Cathay available on vcd not released by Panorama.

Stars: I have a lot of favorites I can't resist.

I don't like very much Connie Chan, I'd say I prefer Josephine Siao, she's a more versatile actress. Ng Cho-fan is the everywhere man of the 50s, and it's interesting to see how each director saw him as a different kind of character. Tso Tat-wah in period martial arts movies is a must. I'm waiting for some Wu Pang / Kwan Tak Hing movies to see the difference from the modern Wong Fei-hung movies. There are not well known actors I'm interested in, as Ho Fei-fan, Mui Yee or Fong Yim-fen. I'm trying to see more movies of your Sun Ma and Ma Sze-tsang to know more about their work. Shek Kin remains in my memory as one of the best villains ever of Hong Kong cinema.

Directors: too many, Chor Yuen,of course,Ng Hui,Mok Hong See,Lee Tit, any associated with United

I agree: Chor Yuen, Ng Wui and Lee Tit are outstanding directors. I've to mention also Chun Kim, Chor Yuen's master. I cannot find Mok Hong See movies on vcd, do you have any good suggestion?

Genres: comedy and melodrama, first; martial arts second; musical,opera, (generally in order of how easy it is for me to understand)

My turn: crime, thrillers, drama and melodrama, then horror / fantasy / adventure, martial arts and opera movies. I find comedies hard to understand because they're more based on dialogues.

I saw yesterday Prince of Thieves, very strange but entertaining. The characters there are incredible: arabians, egyptians, cowboys, roman warriors, all mixed up in a funny romantic adventure.

[dleedlee]

Oh, another MP&GI film on vcd, Seven Lucky Ones, directed by Wong Tin Lam! Very good, I have a short blurb at the reviews. A comedy Leung Sing Bo in dual roles.

Connie v. Josephine - the battle continues! Well, I like both. You are correct, Fong Fong is more talented/versatile (and sexier) acting. Both can sing and dance, Connie probably has better martial arts and opera skills, Fong Fong more the modern styles,e.g. modern/ballet dance. Connie has the sweeter personality. Fong Fong can be cold and cruel (which is not bad).
There's room for both in my collection.

Mok Hong See/Mo Kangshi - mainly romance and comedies I think. e.g.,
Gimmick World,
Student Prince,
Happy Years (Josephine),
Swallow Comes Back in Spring,

Grand View Garden (modern Dream of Red Chamber, pt 1 of 2)
First Love (Connie,drama)
Poor Daughter-in-Law (drama)
Morning Sun (melo,Pak Yin,Cheung Wood Yau,oop?bootleg?)

Mui Yee is also a favorite of mine, She is in many of the Union films and appears frequently with Cheung Wood Yau,Ng Chor Fan and Pak Yin. Did you already read that she was the basis for the rape victim in 1941 Hong Kong on Fire? What a shock to find that out when I read it.

re: Kwan Tak Hing, I recently watched Huang Feihong's Battle with the Gorilla. Not bad, a little too talky until the second half. Tso Tat Wah carries a lot of the load in that film.

Prince of Thieves - yes, very fun. They should have brought back Cheng Kwun Min in part 2 though. Ho Fei Fun is a little scary looking. I think he is one of the opera cross over stars. I've seen him also in Paying Nocturnal Mourning to White Lotus and A Couple In Love/All You Need is Love. The later is a pretty good comedy/musical. I can't remeber the first.

Yeah, I would like to see more crime/detective films. I am waiting! Fatal Adventure is good, a little lighter but very good. See 999: I Am The Murderer, or Murder in the Wind, or Black Widow. It's been awhile since I've watched them but they are worthwhile.

[ciakmull]

Thanks for the Mok Hong-see suggestions, I'll try to find'em all. I've just two films directed by him, one is Student Prince, the other it's not in your list, so maybe it could interest you. It's How Prince Xinling Stole the General's Seal to Save the State of Zhao / The Tiger Sear (http://global.yesasia.com/en/PrdDept.aspx/pid-1001826902/did-0/code-c/section-videos/), I didn't watch it yet, I hope it has been a good choice.

You're right, I prefer Fong Fong for her capacity to switch to dramatic roles without problem. In Winter Love she's simply wonderful, I really would like to see her performance in Lung Kong's Teddy Girls.

I didn't know that Mui Yee was the rape victim of Hong Kong 1941. I'm shocked too. I was shocked also when I've read what triads did to Carina Lau...

I saw A Couple in Love, an average comedy with good actors' work. Thinking about it I don't understand how can Fong Yim-fen chose Ho Fei-fan and not Ng Cho-fan, which is the perfect match for her... And I think that in the movie the first musical moment - the flashback showed in the mirror - is a bit too long.

Crime / Detective: I saw Chor Yuen's In My Dream Last Night, that's a pleasant mix between comedy and thriller (with some daring killing in the final part), The Black Rose and its sequel, Spy with My Face. I've here to see Treasure Hunt, Murder in the Wind and Lady Black Cat. But I don't expect very much from them, I think that also the most accomplished Shaw crime thrillers of the same period don't seem to me as good as I hoped.

Switching to the horror genre, I'm curious about Beautiful Ghost's Grievance (that actually should be a fake horror, a real historical drama) and Haunting Shadow, with Nam Hung.

[dleedlee]

Thanks for the Mok Hong-see suggestions, I'll try to find'em all. I've just two films directed by him, one is Student Prince, the other it's not in your list, so maybe it could interest you. It's How Prince Xinling Stole the General's Seal to Save the State of Zhao / The Tiger Sear I didn't watch it yet, I hope it has been a good choice.

I haven't seen it yet either. I passed on it way back because I wasn't sure whether it was an opera film or not. But now with at least a summary available, I might re-think it. Haven't looked it up yet.

You're right, I prefer Fong Fong for her capacity to switch to dramatic roles without problem. In Winter Love she's simply wonderful, I really would like to see her performance in Lung Kong's Teddy Girls.

Amen!


I saw A Couple in Love, an average comedy with good actors' work. Thinking about it I don't understand how can Fong Yim-fen chose Ho Fei-fan and not Ng Cho-fan, which is the perfect match for her... And I think that in the movie the first musical moment - the flashback showed in the mirror - is a bit too long.

I can't remember, but it is an old film, so I forgive it's shortcomings.

Crime / Detective: I saw Chor Yuen's In My Dream Last Night, that's a pleasant mix between comedy and thriller (with some daring killing in the final part),

I haven't seen this one.

The Black Rose and its sequel, Spy with My Face. I've here to see Treasure Hunt, Murder in the Wind and Lady Black Cat. But I don't expect very much from them, I think that also the most accomplished Shaw crime thrillers of the same period don't seem to me as good as I hoped.

Don't think of the two Black Rose films as related and watch separately, i.e. not back to back and you will enjoy Spy more, otherwise you will be disappointed. Also, remember Spy was filmed in color so they look is very different even in b/w.

Switching to the horror genre, I'm curious about Beautiful Ghost's Grievance (that actually should be a fake horror, a real historical drama) and Haunting Shadow, with Nam Hung.

I don't remember Haunting Shadow, it's been a long time, except that Lee Heung Kam was hilariously funny. She had a odd way of speaking and a weird scissors fetish. The script writer LO Yu-Chi, sometimes director, is another name to look out for. I rewatched his Black Widow this weekend with Cheung Ying Tsoi and Nam Hung paired together again.

Well, maybe by now, you've figured my standards are pretty low. I am easily entertained and I find few films are without any merit. I used to say that you could learn more from a bad film than a good film. Anyway, I tend to grade on the high side!