When did Raymond Chan Wai-man become Michael Chan Wai-man?

[Brian Thibodeau]

While I can't provide physical evidence at the moment, I'd swear Raymond Chan is this wooden-faced character actor's English name, and not Michael, as he's listed in the database. His entry claims he's listed as Raymond only in UNMATCHABLE MATCH, but I'm absolutely certain I've seen him billed as Raymond in several other films of the 80's and 90's and beyond. I believe I've seen him billed once as Michael in a 90's film, but I can't remember the name. In light of his Chinese name, Wai-man, and the fact that he's billed, in English, as "Weiman Chan" in 1977's THE KUNG FU KID would seem to make Raymond a far more natural name for him to use (such as he would need to use it, of course). Just wondering...

[Mike Thomason]

While I can't provide physical evidence at the moment, I'd swear Raymond Chan is this wooden-faced character actor's English name, and not Michael, as he's listed in the database.

If this were the case, then he wouldn't be credited as Michael Chan on the credits of current HK movies, nor on the slipcases of HK DVDs as such. Whilst I can understand some people recall history as their own memory recollects, let's just thanks ourselves "Mike" never followed through with the English name he went by (and was listed in the film's credits under) when he made GANGLAND ODYSSEY (1989)...CHARLIE!!!

[Brian Thibodeau]

Whilst I can understand some people's desire to rewrite history to the version that suits their own memory of it best

Now, be nice, Mr. Thomason. I'm not trying to rewrite history to suit my memory. Mr. Chan went by the name Raymond on the English credits of several films; I'd argue just as many, perhaps even more, than he has using the newer moniker Michael. Problem is, I've neither the time nor the interest nor the equipment to capture screen shots and post them here, so I can only politely disagree with remark I've quoted from your post. The other problem is, since Chinese people are prone to changing their English names many times throughout their lives, the ever-reliable Mr. Chan may one day be represented by yet another English name. Barring the occasional screw-up of Chinese characters in credits, I suppose the Chinese-readers of the world have the advantage of the ability to read an actor's name consistently from one film to the next.

Incidentally, I have GANGLAND ODYSSEY and it was only the Chinese characters that alerted me to his involvement as director. Mind you, watching that film one quickly realizes why he's kept his day job ever since. I've always suspected Andy Lau was "coerced" into appearing in that picture, thus his seemingly deliberately flat performance. Just a theory, mind you...

[Mike Thomason]

The other problem is, since Chinese people are prone to changing their English names many times throughout their lives

Mr. Thibodeau...I wasn't suggesting that you were 'rewriting history to suit' yourself. It's just that I see an awful lot of (Western) people 'rewriting' history when it comes to Asian cinema (most notably HK cinema), on a regular basis and usually to best suit the version of history they would most like to remember personally. Western interests in the industries seemingly goes hand in hand with the fabrication of Asian cinema history, often in direct contradiction of the facts.

I was aware that Chan Wai Man was once referred to by the English name Raymond, and do not dispute that; what I do dispute is that his current English name is not his correct English name - hence my recollection of history comment. His GANGLAND ODYSSEY credit was "Charlie Chan" (and yes, Lau was coerced into appearing in that film, as he was on a number of other occasions around that period - a little gumption will deduce the titles), yet since the late nineties he has taken the English name of "Michael". This is not uncommon in the world of Hong Kong cinema, though once again I would dispute its prevalence in the real world per your above quoted misnomer (my partner's English name is the same English name she has had since birth and not changed it, nor felt the compulsion to change it, once - the same is applicable of all of my Asian friends [Singaporean, Malay, Chinese, etc] in that they have retained their English names since adopting them).

Per examples: Chow Yun Fat, though he has used both English names in the past, is not known as either Donald Chow or Aman Chow to anyone abroad; "fanboys" tut-tut the use of his English names but it does not change the fact that he once used those English names. Chung Chun was formerly known as Jane Chung, but in an effort to distance herself from the stigma of her "adult" work she adopted the English name "Jessica Chung" - yet international fans are still insistent on referring to her as "Jane". Likewise, Lee Lai Chun ("Loletta" Lee) adopted the new English name "Rachel" Lee many, many moons ago...however international fans are still ludicrously adamant in using an English name the actress has left behind her, and most certainly is not happy over. Indeed, change of English name with a HK actor/singer is usually indicative of a change in direction of their career - ie: Chung Suk Wei shifted her English name from Rachel Chung (her modelling name) to Lily Chung for her cinematic debut...

On the other side of the coin is Hong Kong actors who have adopted English names, are referred to in Asian territories by that name, but are still stubbornly referred to by their (largely) Cantonese name by Western viewers predominantly on the proviso that, as "purists", they simply do not like the actor's English name. The biggest example herein is Lau Ching Wan who, whilst not strictly adhering to it (and being dismissive of it in a press conference some years back), holds the English name of "Sean" Lau - a name which some Asian territories have already embraced as his English name. Yet, look at any Western HK movie site (except mine, coz it's still hidden), and you will see hundreds of Caucasian viewers still blindly referring to him as Lau Ching Wan, as well as denying at all that he has an English name. Hui Siu Hung is another - his English name is "Benz", but how many times do you see that mentioned? Additionally, and back at the (Category III) beginning of her career, and whilst she was still known as Hsu Chi, Shu Qi held the English name Fanny Hsu...I could list additional celebrities, but that would only add to a phenomenal page count and be of little worthwhile use...

At the end of the day, HK actors invariably will change their stage name either as signatory of a turning point in their career, or sometimes on the advice of a fortuneteller for improved luck...it's a common thing with actors, just look at Hollywood and try to pinpoint more than a dozen actors who work under their real names. Chinese people, in general though, do not change their English names as it suits them, and that facet of the equation is more a fallacy borne of the Chinese film industry over a rock solid fact. I have known numerous Asian people, of diverse backgrounds (and am engaged to one), and I have NEVER known any of them to change their English name on a whim...nor rechristen themselves with another new English name other than the one they are given/adopt. My lady's English name is Esther, an old fashioned name, as has been so since her birth 32 years ago - I have never, in my 36 years, seen any evidence to support the above statement...other than the world of Hong Kong cinema. Which, like any other film industry, is a law unto itself and tends to operate on a peripheral fantasy element outside of real-life...

[Brian Thibodeau]

Good info, but the only English name I was unaware of was Benz Hui. Interesting...very interesting.

I guess I’d have to agree that many western fans are quite likely responsible for the oceans of misinformation that can be found on many Asian film websites, including this one. I’m reminded of the days when many of us thought Thomas Weisser’s execrable Asian Cult Cinema book was the goddamned bible of the form! And that piece of garbage is still on the shelves. While I’ll admit I’m not the greatest historian, I try to limit my reviews to what I do know, based on research at various libraries, my own collection of books, film festivals, Chinese stores, and, of course, the websites that deal with Asian culture, as well as those that deal with Asian film. “When in doubt, leave it out,” as my old journalism prof would say. When I no longer suspect a piece of information, and have confirmed it beyond a reasonable doubt, I put it back in. Nonetheless, I’m sure I’ve been the unwitting recipient, and perpetuator, of dodgy info over the years. This becomes less of a concern the longer I watch Hong Kong cinema, but I still get leery.

I’ll happily admit I’m very familiar with the works - both naughty and nice - of Lee Lai-chun, Chung Suk-wai and Chung Chun. The problem that their multiple English names presents for me is when I’m reviewing, say, REMAINS OF A WOMAN, starring Rachel Lee Lai-chun, and GIRLS UNBUTTON, starring Loletta Lee Lai-chun, I’ve always wanted to somehow establish the connection, for the newcomer to the form, that these are, in fact, the same actress. Thus, I’ve been forced to list her as “Rachel Lee Lai-chun (AKA Loletta Lee Lai-chun)” or vice-versa depending on the era of the film. I know most readers SHOULD make the connection, but as you mention, there’s a lot of blindly ignorant people out there. I just like to cover all the bases as best I can. Funny thing is, I don’t know how far these actresses think they can distance themselves from their Category III stuff when their Chinese name characters remain consistent throughout. Perhaps they’re pandering to the western market being somewhat more ignorant of Chinese naming conventions?

As to your comment that Chinese people (and other Asian people, for that matter) do not, in general, change their names as it suits them, I believe this can be argued on a limited basis, but only with the same kind of anecdotal evidence you supplied. I would say it happens a minority of the time, but it does happen. To wit, a Chinese friend of mine in high-school was named Bill since birth, although his birth certificate only listed his Chinese name. When he went off to college, he changed Bill to David, and so ended up, at least for a while, with two groups of people (the pre- and post-high-school acquaintances) calling him two different things. Eventually, nearly everyone simply started addressing him as David, and that’s what he goes by today.

I also know a Korean-Canadian woman who legally dropped her birth name Angela, a popular girl’s name in Christian-soaked Korean culture, to her Korean name of Sun-kyung, in part to put a rather difficult upbringing in a strict Korean home behind her and in general to better acknowledge her heritage. To virtually everyone around her, however, she goes by the name Sunny, except in professional circumstances, when she’s credited as Sun-kyung on the documentaries she makes for the CBC.

My girlfriend, like yours, is Asian. Korean-Canadian, in fact. Her English name is Angela (not the same girl as above). I asked her once if she might one day find a reason to adopt her Korean name (Un-ju) as her regular name. She says she seriously doubts it, but admits she never knows what might happen, since she came from parents who were never given English names.

Again, this is all anecdotal evidence, but just to prove there are some Asian folks, albeit a minority, who change their English names to suit their needs. Just because you haven’t seen the evidence, doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. But we could argue semantics all week. I will agree with you that Hong Kong actors seem to do it more than anyone, and for precisely the reasons you mention, but it’s not limited to just entertainers.

Apropos of nothing, really, I was in the local small-town Chinese restaurant about two months back (the kind with “white people” Chinese food, as it’s often called, but still tasty!) and the young daughter of the owners, who works as a server, was playing a Chinese CD. I recognized the current track as Mui Yim-fong and when I asked her if this was indeed the case (and knowing the answer), she replied “No, it’s Anita Mui,” to which I said “Same person," to which she responded “Oh, OK, I don’t know the Chinese name." I then noticed a CD sleeve of Mok Man-wai pinned on the wall, commenting that I wasn’t a fan of her singing, but loved her as an actress. The girl again was not familiar with “Mok Man-wai”, saying “I don’t know her Chinese name.” “Karen Mok,” sez I, and she goes “Yeah, yeah” Moments later, I overhear her mentioning (in Cantonese) to her dad, the cook, that the dude in the corner is familiar with Chinese singers. He nods to me and give a little thumbs up thingy, which I thought was cool. He doesn’t speak much English, so we left it at that, until my favourite Chinese singer of all time, A-Mei, came over the sound system. I pointed to the ceiling speaker and mentioned her name, and this time everyone knew who I was referring to (man, I can be such a geek sometimes). You have to realize this is in a Chinese restaurant in a town with a population of about 5000, near where I work (I actually live in the big city nearby). The girl admitted I was the first person she’d ever seen in the place who knew the singers on her CDs. Then I started in on the movies, but kept the conversation brief since she had to work and I didn’t want her family to think I was hitting on their seventeen-year-old daughter. I point out this tale because there exists a PORTION of the younger generation of the Chinese diaspora outside of the metropolitan centres who are more familiar with celebrities by their English names rather than their Chinese names. A walk through a Chinese record store confirms one source of this, with thousands of records on which the performer's English name usually dwarfs the characters of their Chinese names (plus the fact that some of these kids have grown up speaking English more often than Chinese). Funny, that...

But I digress. I was rather amused the first time I came across “Donald” Chow Yun-fat” on the packaging and screen-credits of SEVENTH CURSE. I listed him as “Chow Yun Fat (billed as Donald Chow Yun-fat)” in my review since, for me, this still seems to be an anomoly as far as his on-screen credits were concerned. I learned about the “Aman” Chow years later, but have yet to see him credited this way (though I do not doubt the veracity of it’s existence).

On the subject of Lau Ching-wan, I first encountered the “Sean” tag on the poster and credits for the Canadian film LUNCH WITH CHARLES, and only a couple of subsequent Hong Kong pictures. In this case, I amended all my previous reviews to include “Sean” but have long wondered whether to revert back to the basic Lau Ching-wan. In Asian DVD shops I hang out in, I’ve overheard people mention his Chinese name only. I’ve been involved in conversations with non-Asian fans of HK cinema and have heard his name used the same way. And yet, there’s that “Sean” haunting my pen very time I watch one of his movies. You mention that some Asian territories have already embraced it as his English name, despite his rare use of it, and then mention Western sites that practically deny he even HAS an English name. It sounds like you’re against both sides for different reasons. So who’s right, or more importantly, who do you think is right? Despite my temptation, I’ll probably keep listing him in everything as "Sean Lau Ching-wan" for the same reasons stated above: some new convert to HK cinema might not immediately make the connection that the Sean Lau in LUNCH is the same Lau Ching-wan who toplines so many excellent Hong Kong productions.

I share your dismay at much of the sloppy info in the database. The site has been a great resource over the years, but sometimes by sending me in the wrong direction at first, it actually helps me piece together information that I can’t find anywhere else, simply by checking and double-checking my own reviews against previous reviews, re-watching credit sequences, etc. This, of course, is not a good thing. I commend the editors in their recent efforts to post screen-shots over in the Data Change thread to get the proper Chinese names in the credit lists. I only wish I could contribute in such a way, since probably like yourself, I’m aware of some very glaring errors and omissions in the site. I also dearly wish they'd delete a great number of the so-called reviews, particularly one- and two-liners that start with "I only watched 20 minutes of this..." or "Haven't seen this in 15 years, but I recall it suckin..." The space savings would probably be astronomical, and useless reviews would be at a minimum.

And finally, I guess I have to negate much of our conversation by pointing out a little tidbit of information that sort of screws up both of our theories. Last night, I watched a fantastic little comedy-thriller called STEWARDESS. Chan Wai-man has a substantial role in this 2002 production, in which he’s billed on both he packaging and on screen as...wait for it...CHARLIE CHAN. Un-bloody-believable!

So where does one go from there? Perhaps we should start billing him as Raymond Michael Charlie Chan Wai-man? It’s got a ring to it...

(By the way, I’ve seen a handful of movies where Andy Lau’s seemingly disinterested performances, ignorantly labelled as “blandness” by Weisser and his ilk, instantly led me to believe that he was deliberately coasting on auto-pilot after being pressured to appear.)

[Mike Thomason]

Hey again Brian,

In semi-brief...

Ooh boy, don't speak to me about Thomas Weissner, Ric Meyers, Asian Cult (nee: Trash) Cinema, or any other of the so-called (self-proclaimed?) American masters of disaster! In a bizarre turnaround, who would've guessed that the Brits had it all over the Yanks in the early (early to mid-nineties) days of overseas HK cinema writing? But it's true...as for me, I only ever goofed majorly ONCE, and strangely enough it was following the erroneous work of Weissner and his cronies (passing on to an employer I was writing freelance for that Leung Po Chi was murdered on the set of SHANGHAI 1920, where it was in fact the loosely related Jim Choi - not murdered on set, but murdered later over one of his notorious heroin hauls out of Amsterdam, around the same time-frame). After that...I never trusted them again, and additionally stopped buying their "magazine" many moons ago, as it's content is still execrable...even the recent Thai cinema issue was the usual palpable crap (how do I know? It's not hard to pick up the offending article and thumb through it at local specialist importers...). Agree on the bad old days...

Nice idea on the dual name thingy...wish I had space for that sort of thing in my own site! I like that, it's good...

Thanks for picking me up on the name thingy with some anecdotal evidence; as mentioned, no Chinese person I've ever known has done so. Thus it was interesting to read that some do as the filmstars do...

RE: Your restaurant revelation. Indeed, welcome to the real world of Asian youth. That's so true...even in my limited contact with Asia (Sarawak & Malaysia thus far), the younger ones are better versed in English than their own native dialects. Some westerners would tell you that's only right, as "English is the world language" (or nonsense to that effect), but it's fascinating to see how western culture has influenced much Asian culture. With world events of the last four years, I think we'll actually see a shift back towards traditional values, schooling, and language focuses. Chirac was right, the West shouldn't continually try forcing it's values on other cultures and, though the youth of Asia are leaning away from it at present, I think you will see a marked turn around in maybe the next decade or two...

Watch either Wilson Tong's GHOSTLY BUS (1995) or Tony Ching's CONMAN IN TOKYO (2000) and you will see Chow Yun Fat clearly referenced as "Aman Chow" (the soundtracks name-check "Chow Yun Fat", but the English subtitles utilise the aforementioned English name).

With regards to Sean Lau, I am against the side that blindly denies the existence of his English name, refuses to acknowledge it, or even goes so far as denounce it on "personal grounds". Online retailer Yes Asia list him as Sean Lau, and when I caught ITCHY HEART in Sarawak earlier in the year the session timetable listed him as "Sean Liu" (since there is preference for Mandarin in that region...after Malay of course!). So, in short, I am against the westerners who are denying facts, and supporting the Asian regions (Lau's primary fanbase) who acknowledge his English name. Though I am Caucasian, and a westerner myself, I will always favour Asians themselves on the right call...since they are always going to know their culture better than me (incidentally, Carina Lau was credited as "Karen Liu" on that same timetable... )

And lastly a small "ha!", as I remembered Chan's screen credit in Sam Leung's THE STEWARDESS mere minutes after posting my last reply...but I could see you were on the ball and it was only a matter of time before you picked that one up. I simply haven't had the time to do so of late, but if the opportunity presents itself in the next 24 hours I'll check the credits of THE SPY DAD, LOST IN TIME and ENTER THE PHOENIX and confirm his "current" name as listed there for you (if needs be I can do screen captures for you as well?), as those are his most recent film appearances I know of...

Cheers Brian & feel free to write me privately if you ever feel the urge (as I have greatly enjoyed this repartee - it has beaten to death butting heads with online numpties for the last couple of years...but what to do? There's so few decent ppl who love HK cinema out there anymore...just DVD fetishists who have slim to negligible understanding of either what they're watching or the culture it originates from).

Mike

PS: My lady's not really "just" my girlfriend...she's my fiancee - she'll probably immigrate mid next '06. So, yeah...my commitment to Asian culture isn't just a passing fad, it's a life choice. Hopefully the marriage of our two cultures will eventually produce something good...

[Mike Thomason]

Hi again quickly Brian,

Here's Chan's credits from his last three theatrical features. As you will see, absolutely NO English name at all! Has he dropped it? Who can tell... (These captures are un-squashed from 16x9 anamorphic, but there wasn't much point resizing them for what you required...)

Enter The Phoenix (2004)


Lost In Time (2003)


The Spy Dad (2003)


Hope this helps your endeavours further...
Mike

[Brian Thibodeau]

Mike

I’ve long known I’m not alone in my neverending distaste for anything even remotely connected to Thomas Weisser. A long time ago, I started a thread over at Mobius (where you were a poster before their big crash, if I recall correctly) in which I listed 100 reasons (as in errors) not to buy his awful book. I’m sure Todd Harbour was considering banning me (he did, though much later) for posting such a lengthy, meticulous put-down of someone’s work, but the thread grew quite long and interesting in a relatively short amount of time. Some folks shared my thoughts, while others, clearly rose-colouring the early- to mid-90’s as halcyon days of wistful trial and error and search and discovery, claimed I was being too harsh. My problem with that was not the EXISTENCE of the book but, as I mentioned in my post above, the fact that it was STILL available on bookstore shelves in light of several more worthy volumes. Perhaps bookstore buyers figured that because Weisser’s book contained nearly 900 reviews, it somehow stood as the definitive version. Sigh. Funny thing is, when I first bought it, I too took him at his word, and it took a few dozen movies for things to finally click. One wrong actor name let to another wrong actor name, which led to a wrong director name, year of release, spelling, etc. To this day, I still keep his book around and, in true frustrated geek fashion (frustrated that some poor newbie will still be suckered into buying it nearly a decade after it was published), I continue to jot down corrections in the margins. The bloody thing looks like a school textbook I’ve marked it up so much - and there are far more knowledgeable people on the subject right now than me.

And the magazine? I bought about six or seven issues of that in the mid- to late-90’s and slowly began to suspect it’s content. Sure, some stuff is accurate, but that in no way forgives the glaring guesswork that seems to go on in so many articles. I believe this magazine was also my first exposure to Ric Meyers, who I’ve been indifferent about since day one, as he seems to have a genuine love for the subject, just not the ambition to do proper research. And for this, the guy gets to do audio commentaries? Christ!

Interesting comments about the Leung Po-chi/Jim Choi thing. This is the area I tend to shy away from in my own reviews, because I don’t always have access to the Hong Kong tabloid reportage to properly mention some juicy tid-bit in a review outside of, say, mentioning that Leslie Cheung’s suicide oddly mirrored the finale of his last film, or something like that. Nonetheless, I still find Hong Kong’s thriving crime and gossip industries to be endlessly fascinating.

As to the dual naming convention, I tend to use it throughout my reviews, even if the actor rarely uses the English name on credits. To me one or two uses is enough justification for me to simply add the English name to all that person’s appearances (i.e. “Sean Lau Ching-wan”) simply for the sake of continuity so that any reader will always know I’m referring to the same person. Plus, since Hong Kong was an English colony for more than a century, a fact that ultimately, evolutionarily explains why virtually any Hong Kong Chinese might have an english name, I figure it’s a safe was of simply bridging the two cultures. In the case of Mr. Chan Wai-man, however, I’ll probably leave him as Raymond simply because I’ve personally seen him billed, in English, more times as “Weiman” or “Raymond” than as anything else. Should my sightings of the “Michaels” some day outnumber the “Raymonds” then I’ll change everything over. Perhaps he’s not aware that different filmmakers or credit designers are arbitrarily picking the English name they best know him by? Thanks for the screen shots of SPY DAD, LOST IN TIME and ENTER THE PHOENIX. Further evidence, I suppose, that it really is an arbitrary process over there sometimes.

As to the habit of Asian people changing names, I’m the first to admit it’s a rare occurence, but it’s nice to see someone who’s at least willing to acknoledge another person’s anecdotal evidence. Too often on forums, such experiences are treated as absolutes (which, in a very limited sense, they are) meant to smarmily silence the opposition, which seems petty to me.

Your mention of CONMAN IN TOKYO is apt. Believe it or not, it’s one of my top 20 Hong Kong films because I believe it contains a number of elements that make up a quintessential Hong Kong movie “experience” but that’s a subject for another thread. Indeed I do remember replaying a scene where the subtitles mentioned “Aman Chow” while the speaker clearly said something else, forcing me to rewind to catch the Chow Yun-fat line. So I guess I have seen the name referenced and forgot all about it! Wasn’t it a scene just after Nick Cheung climbs over the wall or some such? Funny thing is, WHENEVER, characters namecheck actors or singers, I instinctively rewind to see if it matches the subtitles. I’m always thankful when the link proves the filmmakers and subtitlers have some respect for the English speaking audience, as when a character might name-check Mui Yim-fong and the English subs appropriately say Anita Mui. Much more satisfying than those moments when name-checkec Chinese celebrities are replaced in the subs by western counterparts like Madonna, Tom Cruise, Stallone, etc.

Moving back to Sean Lau, I think we’re on the same page here, as I agree people should, at the very least, acknoledge that these people often have “four-part” names that can be perfectly acceptable when writing about the films for both a western or English-speaking-Chinese audience, even if just for the sake of completeness. My rule of thumb, I suppose, is that since I write in English, and since these celebrities DO have English and Chinese names, regardless of how often they use them, I’ll simply list both.

What I wouldn’t do to have the power to go through the database and delete all the nasty, superficial, error-laden and poorly-written reviews. I understand that some of the reviewers might not speak or write English as a first language, but you can easily spot the ones (like Ryan, I suppose) who are trying hard to say something critical through the gramatical inconsistencies, as opposed to those who simply say things like “this is s**t movie” or “Nicolas Tse is a dick” etc., etc. Despite all that, I still rank the HKMDB as a valuable resourse provided you use it in conjuntion with other sites, for few other sites have the sheer volume of films and talent even listed, or even try to list such info for films pre 1980 that weren’t made by Shaw Brothers. Given time, I believe the HKMDB can be a perfect adjunct to the IMDB, even though both will be prone to (hopefully correctable) errors. I can imagine it isn’t easy for the guys who run the site on limited resources, and I wish I was more of a techie so I could help out. But such is life... I also believe that anybody contributing reviews to a site should do so using their proper name, and not the pseudonymns that dominate there. That might weed out a few of the so-called “numpties” if they knew they couldn’t register with a pseudonymous code name. Obviously, this is one of the reasons that, when I do bother to join online forums on movies, DVD etc., I’ll always use my real name. That way, if I piss someone off, everyone will know I bear full responsibility. Besides, if I’m gonna spend all this time composing posts that only a handful of people are likely ever gonna read, I’ll take whatever accreditation I can get.

Thanks for the offer to stay in touch. Good idea as you’re right, there’s so few people who take the subject truly seriously. Many of the review sites, such as kungfucultcinema.com and kungfucinema.com, while OK in cataloguing cast lists and DVD technical details, run so much plot outline when describing HK films that one practically screams for a little brevity and no bloody spoilers. Nontheless, they’re trying. I recently tried to beef up the Asian discussions over at the Home Theatre Forum, and it lasted for about 20 pages, but ever since I got booted out for daring to lean a bit to the left in my views of political films like Fahrenheit 9/11 and it’s spawn, the thread has quickly died (and yes, I’m tooting my own horn, there’s a lot of good conversation in there). Plus, a lot of newcomers were able to find out about some worthy purchase possibilities as well as some real garbage. Some altered versions of my deliberately-short reviews (Chinese and, much later in the thread, Korean) are in there as well, if you are ever so bored as to read the whole thing. As I mentioned, I’m know expert, but I do take things serously (thus my long-windedness in this thread).

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=185362

Regards, and good luck in in your future engagement. Hopefully mine will make it that far some day, given the hard-nut nature of old-school Korean culture sometimes. Fingers, as always, remain crossed.

Brian

[Brian Thibodeau]

Mike,

I know this is waaaaay off topic, but speaking of books on Asian film, are you familiar with "Videohound's Asian Dragon"? I don't fully recommend it, but it's one of the better review compilation guides to Asian cinema on the market:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1578591414/qid=1101143170/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/002-7518493-4877638?v=glance&s=books

It puts Weisser's garbage to shame, but then, I've read flypaper that pulled that off. It's less hyper than "Sex & Zen and a Bullet in The Head" and "Hollywood East," and naturally less-informed than say Stephen Teo's "Hong Kong Cinema: The Extra Dimensions" or Lisa Oldham Stokes and Michael Hoover's analysis-via-communism "City On Fire", but it does come the closest to the kind of book I've WANTED to see for over a decade now, although the inclusion of Korean, Japanese, Thai and Anime titles thins out the HK soup a little bit. My gripes, however (and no offence if you were a contributor to it), are with it's size - it's 936 bond-stock pages with way too much "designed-in" white space and it weighs as much as the regular videohound guide, which has around 20,000 much-shorter reviews. There are sidebar articles covering most of the core culture-specific topics a newbie would need to know (Godzilla, The Yuen Clan, Shaolin, etc.). The reviews themselves, while generally accurate, are full of lengthy plot outlines that remove the reader from the review after the first couple of sentences, all but forcing a jump to the last paragraph, where the actual criticisms can be found. Sadly, many bookstores outside of the major metropolitan centres don't stock it, so you'd probably have to order it online if you're not near a big city. My girlfriend bought me a copy last Christmas. So far, it's probably the best we've got, unless people don't mind paying $75 for John Charles' Hong Kong cinema book, the contents of which are unknown to me.

[Brian Thibodeau]

Oh yeah, and one more thing Mike.

Not that you needed it, but here's conclusive evidence that Leong Po-chi is still alive, but perhaps wishing he was not :

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000255LCK/ref=ase_thedigitalbit-20/002-7518493-4877638?v=glance&s=dvd

[STSH]

I only wish I could contribute in such a way, since probably like yourself, I’m aware of some very glaring errors and omissions in the site.

Wow, what a wordy thread this was.
Fascinating reading, and a most absorbing dialogue.

Brian, sounds like you should volunteer to join the ranks of the editors.
You clearly have the interest and depth of knowledge.
The job of correcting errors and omissions remains an overwhelming one.

[Masterofoneinchpunch]

As to the habit of Asian people changing names, I’m the first to admit it’s a rare occurence, but it’s nice to see someone who’s at least willing to acknoledge another person’s anecdotal evidence.

I'm not sure it is that rare. My fiance (Khmer/Chinese) is known by several names and even more nicknames. I've called her three different names since we have been dating and her family calls her a different name. She's used two additional names while at school. This is a bit of an extreme but another example. Most of her family has had at least two. I have several friends who have changed for Christian reasons (adopting a biblical name when moving over here.)

I know this is waaaaay off topic, but speaking of books on Asian film, are you familiar with "Videohound's Asian Dragon"?

I think this book is a good start for many people. It even lists HKMDB (it is how I found this site and been annoying people ever since.)

I didn't notice until now that most of the dialogue came from last year.