The "new" Miramax hire Bey Logan

[Gaijin84]

http://www.kungfucinema.com/2005/091201.htm

This seems like a good thing - now maybe Asian movies won't come to the US after editors hack them to bits!

[Brian Thibodeau]

It almost seems like too little too late for a company that's treated so many of its international acquisitions like trash. I suppose one plus is that the Weinsteins are probably not involved in this.

Nonetheless, there's plenty of bigger "players" - English-speaking Chinese ones, no less - in the Hong Kong movie industry that they could hook up with. Logan's undoubtedly one of the bigger gweilo names in that industry - and his love of the form is rarely in doubt even when his facts occasionally are - but his output is fairly limited when placed against the work of powerful industry vets like Charles Heung, Tiffany Chen, Solon So, Johnnie To, Wong Jing and several others (not that that last one would have any inkling of how to tap the overseas market, but still).

Plus, Logan's exposure to and experience in the international market is pretty slim also, outside of his admittedly sincere and ubiquitous audio commentaries. Anyone remember the movie he wrote for pal Gary Daniels, WHITE TIGER? Neither do I for the most part. And THE MEDALLION? Well, OK, I'll just barely begrudge him that one since it was a very mildly entertaining flop and probably required his and Paul Wheeler's services due to the Brits in the cast. Otherwise, I suspect one could give Alfred Cheung and Gordon Chan their fair share of the credit. Then again, the more I think of it, it really wasn't that good. How Miramaxe sees him as Their Man In Hong Kong and a reliable arbiter of what films will knock 'em dead in Biloxi is anyone's guess.

I'm generally indifferent about this news, as it IS Miramaxe we're talking about here. If they couldn't squeeze any mileage out of Quentin Tarantino's specialty label (on DVD no less!), I'm not sure how well they'll do with Logan, let alone he with them.

[MrBooth]

I suppose one plus is that the Weinsteins are probably not involved in this.

The Weinsteins are very much involved in "The Weinstein Company" I'm afraid, which is what Gaijin84 means by "The New Miramax" Can't see anything good for Asian cinema coming out of the Weinsteins... they still seem to be stuck in the notion that Asia either makes depressing arthouse films ala FAREWELL MY CONCUBINE or throw-away grindhouse films a'la, err.. the 70's, and treat all their acquisitions that way. I'm sure Bey Logan will be useful to them in making contacts in the industry and persuading HK talents to trust their judgment. I worry what a few more SHAOLIN SOCCER style shaftings will do to Bey's reputation within the industry...

[Gaijin84]

All valid points - I guess I'm hoping that, as a martial art movie enthusiast, Mr. Logan will show them the error of their ways and have some influence on their treatment of Asian films. That's probably wishful thinking, considering the power the Weinsteins wield in Hollywood and the never-ending quest for maximum return on the dollar. It'll probably just mean they use him to get a hold of different sets of movies for them to re-edit and distribute.

Fingers crossed against that!

[bkasten]

Of course not all HK films are martial arts films...and frankly as much of a fan I am of the genre, I even more of a fan of non-martial arts HK films...about which Bey Logan, demonstrably, knows/cares very little or nothing. I see Bey Logan as a HK action film fanboy who somehow managed to get himself into the (B-grade HK action film) industry (...an "industry" into which Michael Wong has gotten).

On the other hand, it seems to me that Bey Logan has actually done a bit to help English speaking HK action film fans understand HK action film and the associated culture. Although I can do without the gratuitous name dropping in his commentaries, his imparting of understanding (albeit superficial) and respect for Chinese culture is really a good thing. I think quite a few English speaking Bruce, Jackie, Sammo and Jet fans have all learned something from Bey. Hopefully he can impart some of this undertsanding to the "fine" folks at Miram-axe. And thankfully, Bey's script writing days should now be over too...

It's difficult to have a thread where Bey "friend of Donnie Yen" Logan, Gary Daniels, Michael Wong, and Miramaxe are all brought up, and have a discussion with even the slightest bit of sobriety. Just hearing the name Gary Daniels makes me laugh out loud...

Speaking of laughing, here is hilarious piece of satire: an exerpt from a Bey Logan interview:

Logan: My first piece of advice to anyone wanting to work here is this: no matter how much you're a fan of Hong Kong films, you have to present yourself as a professional. There is, quite rightly, a division between those of us that make movies (sic) in Hong Kong, and those in the fan community who enjoy watching them. I meet people who seem to think that seeing a huge number of Hong Kong films, and even being an acknowledged expert on the genre, somehow qualifies you to actually make movies.

QED

[Brian Thibodeau]

The Weinsteins are very much involved in “The Weinstein Company” I’m afraid, which is what Gaijin84 means by “The New Miramax”

I see. I misread Gaijin84’s post, thinking that the “new” Miramaxe was in fact the same old Miramaxe only without the Weinsteins.

I held back what I really wanted to say in my first response, because I wasn’t sure of Logan’s standing among contributors to the HKMDB, but I see now that I’m not alone in my thoughts.

I was primed to point out that Logan is really more of a martial arts film fan than anything else, in response to Gaijin84’s last post, but it looks like Simon beat me to the punch. There was actually a time when I slightly envied Bey Logan, since his timing with Impact Magazine, and ultimately his book, was obviously key in opening doors to the HK industry, but it was clear that his interest in Hong Kong cinema extended ONLY to action films. I'd be the first to admit his book turned me on to a cornucopia of fantastic action cinema, but it and most of the other books of the time did little to encourage the reader to look beyond fists and guns. Thankfully, the films themselves pointed many of us in the right direction.

Logan's arrogance is legendary in some circles, although he doesn't seem overly aware of it or too concerned by it. He himself once took issue with me via email for comments I'd made at Mobius a few years ago about his magazine, his screenwriting and his defensive fanboy nature. While we resolved our issues reasonably amicably, the back and forth email sessions nonetheless indicated his sensitivity to those he outwardly deems inferior to him (which I'd now say is the rest of us 'fanboys" according to that interview excerpt posted by Guilao).

His first email to me, which was rather testy, basically said, "If you hated GEN-Y COPS, just wait until you see HIGHBINDERS!" Though it sounds like he's slagging his own work, his intent was to piss all over a little disgruntled fanboy, since he assumed I hated his writing, but what a ill-considered way to express it!

I don't remember the comments that invited his response, exactly, but suffice it to say that I remarked that I thought his magazine was little more than a repository for blatant reprints of American studio PR material and a smattering of HK reviews and that his writing for GEN-Y COPS was abyssmal.

Surprisingly, he openly confessed that most of the content in IMPACT was absolute s**t. He couldn't waffle on this one, anyways, since I worked as a film writer for a daily newspaper until only a couple of years prior and routinely cross-checked IMPACT's "articles" against the press kits I received on an almost daily basis, and found them to be consistently one and the same. By that measure, ANYONE could have created a magazine by taking studio press materials and reprinting them verbatim, then printing the whole thing up in a pretty package with so little advertising you had to wonder where the money was coming from. So in fact he actually put very little effort into the magazine that ultimately opened doors in Hong Kong for him, which for me tended to undervalue much of what he claimed to have done up until the point that he took issue with me, a little internet fanboy, not to mention much of what he's done since.

Next up, he confessed that the particular GEN-Y COPS dialogue with which I had taken issue, the infmaous "pier" scene between Edison Chen and that other guy who couldn't act either, in which these two Chinese kids got all ghetto with each other, had not, in fact, been written by him. He claimed the dialogue came from the other writers and, if I recall correctly, was partly improvised by the non-actors. He did, however, stand by the material he DID write for the film, including, he said, the hospital scenes.

As others here have noted, pairing Logan up with the Weinsteins will amount to nothing - I'd bet good money on it. At best, when they realize his instincts keep pointing them toward Medallion-type films to which he's attached himself, they'll soon realize he's better suited to the home video branch, where they can at least have him record commentaries for movies they sit on for several years.

I know what you mean about the name-dropping, too, Guilao. Linking himself to Donnie Yen (his equal in arrogance, I've read) for so many years did neither of them any favours, and I doubt much of Donnie's current and increasing success is attributable to Bey Logan, who seemed to associate with Donnie when Donnie was making sludge like CIRCUS KIDS and IRON MONKEY 2 and just-passable fare like HIGH VOLTAGE and SHANGHAI AFFAIRS. It becomes tiresome after awhile. Then again, who knows if it wasn't this very same reinforcement of his "ties" that convinced the Weinstein's he was their necessary point man in Asia.

I also agree with your point about him being a fanboy who managed to ingratiate himself into B-grade Hong Kong filmmaking, but I think Logan would probably argue this point if he actually read it, pointing out that some of the films with which he's been associated, like GEN-Y, MEDALLION and PURPLE STORM, were, by Hong Kong standards at least, A-list movies with larger budgets and prime release slots. Concurrently, however, they're all of them essentially glossy B-pictures by western standards. That, in part, is was many of us love about HK cinema in the first place.

Still, Logan hasn't much to brag about to his new paymasters, and if they think he does, they're talking to the wrong fanboy. His impression of himself and his attitude are nicely summed up in that interview quote. He's made other comments along these lines, so you know the interviewer didn't just happen to catch him on a bad day. There's a defensive quality to many of his comments that might suggest he's somewhat frustrated by the ceiling imposed on him in HK. He may always be involved in their film industry, but let's face it, in the expanding and increasingly connected global marketplace, intermediaries like Logan may one day be a thing of the past. His love for Hong Kong action cinema will always be there, but then so will ours, and I'd argue ours runs much, much deeper.

And finally, the fact that Gary Daniels is STILL making movies to this day absolutely astounds me! The very fact that he has this extensive resume of abysmal direct-to-video fare is the exact reason producers of such junk keep hiring him - he's actually got name value now! And no offense to the British contributors on this board and my own ancestors, but the man's accent friggin' BUGS me. Nonetheless, he's probably got a nicer house than I do.

[Gaijin84]

Nonetheless, he's probably got a nicer house than I do.

And he gets to ogle Maggie Q all day.

[bkasten]

Great stuff Brian!

[Gaijin84]

Agreed!

Always interesting and informative posts.

[Brian Thibodeau]

And he gets to ogle Maggie Q all day

I hope he's only looking, or have I missed something over the years? Or is she really blind and posessed of a thing for old British men?

Besides, if we fanboys wanna look at gorgeous Asian women, all we have to do is go to Chinatown and sit on a bench. Mind you, we'd look like total losers, but that doesn't mean there'd be any fewer girls to ogle!

Ummm...

I probably shouldn't have typed that out loud. My girlfriend might see this one day and think I've got some kind of a fetish...and she's Asian!

Anyways, thanks for the positive feedback on my rant!

[Masterofoneinchpunch]

and ultimately his book, was obviously key in opening doors to the HK industry, but it was clear that his interest in Hong Kong cinema extended ONLY to action films.

I also feel that Ric (call me Remo) Meyers has had a big (bigger than Logan) influence on America on promoting Asian action films.

Both of their books do lack cohesion and a sagacious struture but Ric's enthusiam is catchy. Bey's favorites are a bit bewildering (like Iron Fisted Monk over Prodigal Son and many others though he loves Sammo's work.) His book read like a "fanboy" who loved certain directors and actors while not liking others.

I probably shouldn't have typed that out loud. My girlfriend might see this one day and think I've got some kind of a fetish...and she's Asian!

yes you have a fetish. (NOTE TO SELF: must not mention nationality of fiance )

[Brian Thibodeau]

yes you have a fetish

How DAAARRRRE You!!

Why, I never!

Besides, that could only be proven if we broke up and the next one was Asian, and the one after that, and the one after that, and possibly even the one after that. It would take a few before I realized I had a problem, usually does. And even then, I'd blame it on the movies! They've messed me up in so many ways, though not as badly as the white women I've dated and... (oh s**t, there I go AGAIN! Note to self: STOP it!)

But I kid.

So, who's yer bird then, eh?

Oh yes, getting back on topic, I share your assessment of the books by Meyers and Logan. I'd say Logan is the better writer, technically, but you're right about Meyers' enthusiasm, which is also in evidence on his DVD audio commentaries. His rumpled delivery and affection for old school movies is clear, even if his fact-checking abilities are notoriously suspect. Then again, when commenting on an industry as fluid, often unaccountable, and generally unaccounted FOR as Hong Kong's, where even the filmmakers and stars seem disinterested in revisiting their old works, mistakes are bound to happen.

That said, they're both ideally suited to less demanding home video divisions, not the theatrical arena. Hopefully, at least one of them will stay put.

[bkasten]

Apart from pointing out an "add me to the list" as my S.O. is HK Chinese, let's not digress any further into this particular relationship/preference topic. This is a movie site...and there are many other venues for such important and interesting discussion (which BTW, I strongly encourage).

As for the on-topic discussion:

And we've now gotten to discussions about the relative writing skills of Bey Logan vs. Ric Meyers. Wow. What next?

'oneinch'er: I agree; good point about Meyers. As for Logan, I am mostly impressed with his attitude, knowledge, and respectful disposition toward the Chinese culture. He's in a totally different league than Meyers in that regard...

And while I think Bey is quite surprisingly (given the subject/material) articulate and literate, I still cannot take him even remotely seriously within the wider context of real HK cinema. In fact, it's hard to take anyone currently involved in B/action cinema (HK or otherwise) seriously. And the latest B/actioner "Seven Swords" does little to change this position vis a vis the HK side...

That said, they're both ideally suited to less demanding home video divisions, not the theatrical arena. Hopefully, at least one of them will stay put.

Exactly! With even more emphasis on the NOT...

[Brian Thibodeau]

It's hard to take anyone currently involved in B/action cinema (HK or otherwise) seriously. And the latest B/actioner "Seven Swords" does little to change this position vis a vis the HK side..

I nearly bought tickets to see SEVEN SWORDS at the Toronto International Film Festival, but thanks to the rotten performance of their website on the opening day of ticket sales, the tickets sold out to those who braved the five-hour lineups in the city.

But judging from the mixed things I've heard about it, it doesn't sound like I'll miss much. Is it really that bad or are you generally not a fan of such fare, Guilao? I'm actually fond of HK B-cinema from these overblown epics right down to street-level videogramme trash, so perhaps my expectations wouldn't have been that high for it anyway, despite Tsui Hark's name on the piece.

I ended up substituting tickets to the gala premiere of THE MYTH, which, from the looks of those poorly edited trailers floating around the internet, might not have been such a good idea either. At least the talent will be there, so I can stargaze with all the other boobs while I'm waiting for the show to start.

And if you think things have degenerated around here when we're discussing the relative talents of people like Ric Meyers and Bey Logan, just be glad I didn't throw Thomas Weisser into the mix.

Whoops. I suppose I just have now, haven't I?

[bkasten]

I think strictly within the confines of the genre, it's OK (Seven Swords, that is). It's epic, certainly. It has horses and sweeping vista backdrops. It has Lau and Donnie. For many that'll be enough...for others, not. Far from it.

I was reading a North American Chinese newspaper recently that had interviews with Leon Lai and Charlie Yeung, and one of them pointed that the best dramatic performance in the movie was by the leading horse.

Thomas Weisser. Wow, he actually deserves a thread unto himself...where his material is systematically deconstructed and revealed for what it really is.

...but I digress...

[Brian Thibodeau]

Thomas Weisser. Wow, he actually deserves a thread unto himself...where his material is systematically deconstructed and revealed for what it really is.

If you wouldn't think it inappropriate, I'd happily supply the forum with a very lengthy starter list of glaring inaccuracies in his Asian Cult Cinema book. It would certainly help a few newcomers NOT make the mistake of purchasing it and others could add to it if they wanted. Of course, it might also show people just how much some folks like me resent Weisser's continued existence as a half-assed "critic," pinky fetishist and known bootlegger, but it might make for fun reading...

Just a thought....

[bkasten]

Sounds like a great idea! You can have you own locked thread dedicated to that "book", in fact...

[Brian Thibodeau]

Thanks for that!

I can't put it up today, unfortunately, but I will retrieve it and post it on Monday as I'm about to head away for the weekend.

It's got about 100 items in it right now, and I'm sure myself and others could very easily add to it over time.

Weisser's book, once upon a time, was virtually the only book-form treatment of Hong Kong cinema widely available to western fans. For someone like myself who lived in a smaller city some distance from Toronto with it's film fest and fanzine culture, the fact that my local bookstore carried the Asian Cult Cinema book seemed like a blessing at the time. But I had no frame of reference then, and it took years before I truly realized how deeply erroneous and sloppily researched it was.

When I brought up the subject once on the old Mobius board, opinion was split on the issues I had with the book, though mostly in favour of the negative. Those who agreed shared their own lists of boo-boos from both it and Weisser's volumes on Japanese cinema. There were defenders who rightly pointed out that when Weisser and his cronies wrote the book (and many of the early issues of the magazine), almost nothing was known about Hong Kong cinema, at least outside the Chinese communities. While I can understand the errors that virtually all of us made in those early days, this book is still being sold in bookstores and online retailers. This bugs the hell out of me. In fact, it gets harder and harder to find Bey Logan's book, as well as Sex & Zen & A Bullet in the Head in brick & mortar shops, and yet time and again, there sits Asian Cult Cinema, unchanged and uncorrected since it was published in 1997, wasting space and tempting newcomers into believing it might be of some use in 2005. Thank heavens for the internet!

I could go on, but I'll save some for later.