"Turks" in Warriors of Heaven and Earth

[ewaffle]

Some of the bad guys in Warriors of Heaven and Earth are referred to as "Turks". In the movie they were from the far, far west--somewhere past what is now Xinjiang province. Anyone know who they were supposed to be? I would imagine they are Central Asians, possibly from what is now Kazakhstan but not from Turkey. They were led by "Khan", either a name or a title, so perhaps they were Mongols? Or they could just be a nation and a people created by the filmmakers to serve as an enemy.

Not the most important query but the constant references piqued my interest.

[bierce]

Yes, there were Turks in Chinese history, and this could refer to any of the subtribes of Turks that lived in what is now Xinjiang, Uzbekistan, Mongolia, etc. The subgroups include Western and Eastern Turks, and the Uighurs--who still exist today. "Khan" was also used by the Turks in addition to the Mongols to denote a ruler. These historical Turks do have at least some connection with modern Turkey, as many of them eventually moved there over the centuries, being forced out by the Mongols (albeit surely mixing with other races in the process). Sorry to ramble

[Frank Lakatos]

The Turks mixed with the Greeks, who populated the current Turkish territory before the Turks settled there, that is why they don't look like their ancestors. Ironically, it was the Mongols the embarresed(caught in the Carpathian basin or somewhere in Easten Europe, the Turkish queen was gang banged by the Mongols, while the Turkish king was locked in a small cage) and destroyed the Turks out of Europe.

Through my interest, I've never heard anything about the Huns in Chinese movies. Many centuries ago, they used to interact with each other at the great wall, tarding, ect. You can hear the similarities in the Hungarian and Mandarin pronunciation of numbers and some words. For example In Mandarin the word good is pronunced "Ho" and in Hungarian good is pronunced "Yo". Today Huns and Chinese appear to be unrelated, many centuries ago, Huns and the Chinese borrowed words and customs from each other. Also of an interesting note Hungarian music sounds similar to Korean music, compare Hungarian music to that of an old Korean movie, and they will feel the same in the sentimental approach. Bartok said the Huns music was influenced by Turks, but I don't agree for many musical and cultural reasons(Huns and Turks could never get along at that time). I definately agree there is a strong connection between Hungarian and Korean culture, music and clothing, and in fact some language patterns(the ancient Huns pronunced their words deep voice and rugged pronunciation, until the Gypsies came and pitched up the pronunciation of the language), and cultural characters, as both were wild barbaric peoples. Through fact, currently it is said that Korean blood and Hungarian DNA is nearly alike(in some Hungarian provinces), more alike than in comparison to other Altaic peoples, and that factions of the Huns descended from the Korean territory with the Mongols many centuries ago. In general, the entire Altaic blood line, some modern Hungarians, Mongols, northern Chinese, and Koreans share a smiliar DNA, with the Hungarians(of certain provinces) being the closest in comparison to the Koreans, which was proven lately. However, the Japanese have the less in common with the Altaic blood, although their language is influenced by the Altaic language, but it wa srecently proven that the Japanese have nothing in common with Koreans, mongols, or any people of the Altaic branch. This is thought to the influence of one of the 10 Jewish tribes, which traveled sown the silk road and into Japan, where they invested their customs and language into the Japanese culture. Here is a website on the Jewish influence in Japan:

http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~magi9/isracame.htm

An excerpt:

"Hi, fu, mi, yo, itsu, mu, nana, ya, kokono, towo."

This is a traditional expression, but its meaning is unknown it is thought of as being Japanese.
It has been said that this expression originates from an ancient Japanese Shinto myth.

Joseph Eidelberg stated that this is a beautiful Hebrew expression, if it is supposed that there were some pronunciation changes throughout history. These words are spelled:
"Hifa mi yotsia ma na'ne ykakhena tavo."

Engelbert Kaempfer was a German medical doctor who stayed at Dejima, Nagasaki Japan during 1690-1693 C.E.. He came to Japan after he traveled and saw various countries of the world. He was an erudite man and published a book about Japan after he went back to Europe.
In the book Kaempher states that the Japanese language, customs and religion are much different from the ones of the Chinese or the Koreans, and that the main race of the Japanese are not derived from the Chinese or Koreans but rather a tribe from the area of Babylon came to Japan and became the main race of the Japanese. He wrote:
"The Japanese must be of a tribe who immigrated directly from the area of Babylon."
The area of Babylon is the Middle East where there was the Assyrian Empire which the Ten Tribes of Israel were exiled to. Kaempher also states:
"The appearance of the Japanese is so different according to regions in Japan that we can clearly distinguish. This proves that the Japanese are formed through the process that several tribes were added to a basic nation. The most noble, old lineage family and "daimyo", feudal lords, and high officials are generally intelligent, elegant in appearance than others, full of dignity, having higher nose and somewhat look European. The people in the region of Satsuma, Oosumi, and Hyuga are middle in the height, but strong and manly in language and ability...."
And he states that there are differences in appearance and nature according to the peoples of various parts of Japan. He also states:
"As for the roots of the Japanese and their origin, it seems that we should admit the Japanese are independent from others and did not derived from the Chinese."

Custom of Kanka and Jewish Passover

Jews have traditional custom called Passover. This originates from the Book of Exodus in the Bible, and reminds that more than 3000 years ago, the Israelites, who had been slaves in Egypt, went out of Egypt under the leadership of Moses. There was an incident called Passover at the night just before they went out from Egypt. When occurred a disaster of death upon the first son of every house in Egypt, the disaster passed over all the houses of the Israelites.
The Israelites killed lamb under the commandment of God and put the blood to their gates. They soaked a bunch of hyssop with the blood and applied it to the gates. The houses with the blood were passed over by the angel of death. The Israelites grilled and ate the lamb at the night.
The similar custom is seen in the area of Ryuukyuu, Japan. As mentioned earlier, Juuji Nakada said that in Ryuukyuu, there was a custom to drive all bad things away by killing cattle and putting the blood to the gates of houses. This custom is called Kanka. Nakada thought that the reason why they used not sheep but cattle in Kanka custom was that there were no sheep in Japan.
I called and asked the school board of Okinawa about this custom. The answer was that they have in fact the custom called Kanka or Shimakusarashi (meaning driving away). They kill cattle, soak the blood with plant as Japanese pampas grass or leaves of mulberry, and apply the blood to their gates, four corners of their houses, and the entrance of the village not to let bad things come in. They grilled and ate the cattle on the day.
This reminds us of the custom of Passover in ancient Israel. And I hear that the Japanese word Kanka means passover.
We can see the Kanka custom even today, but today in many towns the cattle is replaced by pig. I asked "Why, pig?" The answer was that in the past, they were prohibited to kill cattle, so they changed to pig (There is an article in Okinawa Daihyakka Jiten (Okinawa encyclopedia) published by Okinawa Times).
Kanka custom is held mainly in the second month and eighth month in the Japanese old lunar calendar (2-3 times a year). The second month in the Japanese lunar calendar corresponds with Spring - March or April in the solar calendar, and it is interesting that this is about the same season as Jewish Passover feast. According to the Bible, the lamb for the Passover was killed on the 14th day of Nisan (Abib) in the Jewish calendar, and this corresponds with March or April in the solar calendar.

Putting off Shoes and Washing Feet

The Japanese emperor performs the Daijou-sai (the big harvest feast) after his accession to the throne, when he changes his clothes to white ones and come forward to god with his feet naked. There he receives oracle of god and becomes true emperor and leader of the nation.
This is similar to a thought in the Bible. When Moses came forward to God, he put off his shoes and became barefoot (Exodus 3:5). So did Joshua (Joshua 5:15). There they received oracle of God and became true leaders of the nation.
When the Japanese come into their house, they put off their shoes, too. The Western and the Chinese come into their house with their shoes on, but the Japanese do not. According to Zen'ichiro Oyabe, until the beginning of Meiji-era (about 100 years ago), there was a custom in Japan to prepare a washtub with water or hot water for a person who walked outside to wash his/her feet before entering the house. Oyabe says that this is a traditional custom peculiar to Japan and not the one they learned from other Asian countries.
The ancient Israelites had the custom of washing their feet; there are several descriptions about washing feet in the Bible (Judges 19:21, etc.). Washing feet before entering a house was a daily custom of the ancient Israelites.

From another site: http://asis.com/~stag/japanese.html

Prof. Odlum is sure that we understand and remember that Manasseh, in the absense of Ephraim, was the ruling Tribe of any group (with a Judahite king, if that was possible). When these three tribes (not ALL of the three tribes, of course) migrated east to Japan, etc. they were ruled by Manasseh-ites. The second thing to remember and understand is that Ephraim and Manasseh were half Egyptian. This explains why the Japanese eyes AND skin tone is so different than their close neighbors, the Chinese.

Here's one I like a lot. The capitol city of Israel was Samaria. Samaria is located in the territory of Manasseh. Undoubtedly warriors of Manasseh were heavily involved in the three year siege of Samaria before it fell in 712 BC. I'm sure that these Samarian warriors of Manasseh were haughty and proud of their performance even in defeat. They held out for three years!!! I bet they even had a cry like the Texans have for their Alamo. Those warriors probably went around shouting, "Samaria, Samaria," as a rallying cry in their battle against the Medes, Urartians, and Assyrians during their stay by the Black and Caspian Seas (depending on who they were fighting against at the moment).

Well, when some of these ruling, half-Egyptian, Manasseh-ites got over there to Japan, the warriors of Samaria became the Samurai. Isn't that just the neatest connection? I love it. And the common Japanese name, Sakai, is very close to what the Persians called the Israelites; Sakka, for the sons of Isaac. What about Saki? Prof. Odlum brings out many more parallels between the Israelites and the Japanese.

I definately believe the Japanese culture has been heavily influenced by one of the 10 tribes. That's saying much for now, but read this website and you will see the connections between the Japanese and Jews.

I'm just a layman at this. The theories continue, all interesting, but it's the DNA and cultural similarities in combination that tells the truth.

Regards,

Frank

[bkasten]

Ah...

[ewaffle]

While not qualified to discuss most of the information in Frank's post, I will take exception with his disagreement with Bela Bartok's statement that Hungarian music was influenced by Turkish music.

In addition to being one of the giants of 20th century musical compositon, Bartok collected and studied the folk music of Hungary, the Balkans and Turkey. He spent several years cataloging and arranging folk songs from this area and knew the music as well as anyone.

I wanted to wrench this back on topic by showing a parallel between Bartok and a Hong Kong film maker but couldn't really think of one. Perhaps if Johnny To, in addition to making movies, had spent years doing shot by shot analysis of western silent movies and other sources....