Oldboy the most overrated film ever

[steve_cole1]

I just watched oldboy after all the hype everyone has given it what a letdown this film is rubbish i cant see what all the fuss is about . Its probably just me but cant see why it is a good film

[ewaffle]

"Citizen Kane" is the most overrated movie ever.

[Masterofoneinchpunch]

"Citizen Kane" is the most overrated movie ever.

hmmmm no it is not. When you have Alex Proyas, Michael Mann,
Sam Mendes, Paul Schrader, Richard Linklater, Miles Forman, Roger Corman, Alex Cox (notice I'm just mentioning directors) that consider it amongst their top ten films.

http://www.bfi.org.uk/sightandsound/top ... ne+(Welles)

Still thinking about most overrated Asian film...

[MrBooth]

"Citizen Kane" is the most overrated movie ever.

hmmmm no it is not. When you have Alex Proyas, Michael Mann,
Sam Mendes, Paul Schrader, Richard Linklater, Miles Forman, Roger Corman, Alex Cox (notice I'm just mentioning directors) that consider it amongst their top ten films.

http://www.bfi.org.uk/sightandsound/top ... ne+(Welles)

Surely that's the very definition of over-rated? When I've asked people why they consider it so fantastic they always seem to mutter about deep focus photography and groundbreaking something or other... never yet heard anybody say "Because I really enjoy watching it" :-p

[bkasten]

"Citizen Kane" is the most overrated movie ever.

. . . When you have Alex Proyas, Michael Mann, Sam Mendes, Paul Schrader, Richard Linklater, Miles Forman, Roger Corman, Alex Cox (notice I'm just mentioning directors) that consider it amongst their top ten films.

QED

[Brian Thibodeau]

Just for the record, I really enjoyed watching it. Overrated? Yeah, but not as highly as some of you are suggesting, at least not to me. Granted, I thought SYMPATHY FOR LADY VENGEANCE was even better on a number of levels, though I must admit I'm partial to films that aren't afraid to rip religion a new one.

[Mike Thomason]

I just watched oldboy after all the hype everyone has given it what a letdown this film is rubbish i cant see what all the fuss is about . Its probably just me but cant see why it is a good film

Don't take it to heart, Steve. Personally, I thought it was superb and one of the best Asian films I saw from it's release year, but while I was watching it I was thinking that it's not a film for everyone. The main problem we have these days is that you get people who buy into online hype and operate on the "sheep mentality" (ie: they talk up a film just because everyone else is doing the same thing, because it somehow makes them as "hip" as everyone else -- even if they don't understand, or sometimes even get, the film in question). And that gives a false sense of importance to some films...

Myself personally, I tend to avoid forum hype over films and just assess a film's appeal to myself based upon the filmmaker's other works that I've seen, if the film has actors I know, and so on. A lot of the OLDBOY hype that I read when it hit DVD in South Korea was solely based around the manner in which the film was packaged and the technical side of the disc sets released -- almost no-one talked about the film. Myself, I pretty much only watch Asian films, and have done so since the late eighties, so my mindset is finely tuned towards those kinds of sensibilities (plus, some people would say that I can watch nearly anything and find something to enjoy in it).

But I look at it this way: you watched it, you didn't like it, and you've been big enough to buck the trend and say so. No harm in that -- we all have different likes and dislikes, and it's good to voice a difference of opinion. Sadly, the internet is populated by film fans who can't come to grips with the idea that there are people out here with differing viewpoints than their own, and they take great offense in seeing such. If you didn't like OLDBOY, I'd say there's a good chance you probably won't like the rest of Park Chan-Wook's filmography as it exhibits similar themes and structures as the film in question. For what it's worth, I thought his segment of THREE...EXTREMES ("Cut") was largely crap...

[MrBooth]

Oh, I forgot this thread wasn't about Citizen Kane initially For the record, I absolutely loved OLD BOY on first viewing, which is all it's had so far (waiting for a special occasion to revisit it... been trying to force it down various friends throats for ages with no success). Didn't quite know what to make of LADY VENGEANCE from a first watch though...

[Mike Thomason]

Didn't quite know what to make of LADY VENGEANCE from a first watch though...

I thought that was an equally extraordinary film! But that's just me -- the visual design and fashion in which Park told his story really impressed me. My wife bought me a copy, she loved it and highly recommended it to me (we both have a soft spot for South Korean cinema), and I was just as taken with it as she was. I still feel OLDBOY was the better film though.

Now that SYMPATHY FOR MR. VENGEANCE has been released locally (Australia) in an edition with a 16:9 transfer and DTS sound, for an affordable price, I'll be picking that up too...as I haven't yet seen it!

[cal42]

I loved Old Boy. Fantastic film!

[ewaffle]

It is difficult for any movie to live up to the expectations built by internet hypemeisters, including the cadre who think “Everything that __________does is the best thing ever and if you don’t think so you will rot in hell”. Since “Oldboy” wasn’t released in the USA until 2005 most of the web-based fan driven yapping had long passed and many of us were able to see it with only a few reviews and trailers to whet our appetites. Additionally, “Oldboy” dealt with a topic that was very hot among civil libertarians—prisons that were not only run by private companies but that existed secretly (although with the knowledge of government officials) and were therefore beyond the reach of even the most basic tenets of US law such as habeas corpus.

Having seen the movie knowing very little about it and not having been subjected to the “finest film since the Lumeire Brothers” discussions I found it excellent and recommended it to others. If I had walked into the theater expecting to be entertained, enlightened and transported as never before my reaction might have been different.

We don’t get many East Asian movies here in the barely beating heart of the Rust Belt and they usually come and go quickly, sans hype—or even advertising.

[Mike Thomason]

It is difficult for any movie to live up to the expectations built by internet hypemeisters, including the cadre who think “Everything that __________does is the best thing ever and if you don’t think so you will rot in hell”.

Bingo! The exact reason I refuse to read just about any forums (or online amateur reviews) any more.

As you said, by the time the internerd geeks have finished "yapping" often a film you otherwise might have entertained going to see has been hyped into the heavens and has no hope of living up to said hyperbole -- expectantly, the film turns out a disappointment because people wanked on about it ad-infinitum.

In many ways, the internet (for film fans) has become as much a bane (masturbatory exercises in self-absorbed prose) as it can sometimes be a godsend (a plethora of information like we've never had prior). I choose to give the latter a cursory scan, and the former a wide, wide berth...

[Masterofoneinchpunch]

Surely that's the very definition of over-rated? When I've asked people why they consider it so fantastic they always seem to mutter about deep focus photography and groundbreaking something or other... never yet heard anybody say "Because I really enjoy watching it" :-p

OK I enjoyed Citizen Kane (heck I've even been to Hearst Castle); I just thought that references would work better. Titanic is the most overrated American film of all time (ok everyone flame away).

Oldboy is not overrated.

While I enjoyed Enter the Dragon I think from an American standpoint it is the most overrated Asian film (many here including several issues of Black Belt magazine) have stated that it is the greatest MA film of all time. I do not think it is even Bruce's best.

[Brian Thibodeau]

As you said, by the time the internerd geeks have finished "yapping" often a film you otherwise might have entertained going to see has been hyped into the heavens and has no hope of living up to said hyperbole -- expectantly, the film turns out a disappointment because people wanked on about it ad-infinitum.

This brings up something that has bothered me in recent months, maybe even the past year or more.

I peruse, but DON'T participate in, a few other discussion forums and review sites on a reasonably regular basis (none moreso than this one right here, though) and while I can take or leave the hyperbolic windup that precedes the U.S. releases of high-profile Asian cinema (or Indian or Euro or what have you) for what it evidently is, I find that some contributors to such sites get so bogged down in watching, reading, and deconstructing the latest OLD BOY or TWILIGHT SAMURAI or HERO or 2046 that they collectively gloss over or pay no notice at all to literally dozens of mainstream products from all of those countries, from DTV sleaze right up to A-list bubblegum comedies.

The better review sites fare more successfully in that they're at least trying to catalogue the full spectrum of what's out there (as best as their contributors' budgets will allow), but the "high-brow" discussion groups (and I'm sure you know at least one I'm referring to Mike! ) decidedly lean towards highbrow and/or high-profile fare when it comes to Asian cinema, as well as the usual technical quibbling over DVD presentations, aspect ratios, extras (and other assorted minutae). I mentioned in another thread here that the techie talk certainly has its value when it comes time to upgrade to a better edition of a quintessential film, but it still begs the question of just how many films are these people missing while they rewatch OLDBOY for the fourth time in less than a year because they felt compelled to enrich the experience?

Don't get me wrong. My "keeper" collection of DVDs is huge because it's my intention to rewatch titles from time to time in the (hopefuly) decades I've got left, but such viewings at the moment frequently take place because I've got someone to show the film to (my girlfriend, a co-worker, my parents, etc). Yes, sometimes on whim I'll breeze through some cherished piece of drive-in sleaze that I've seen countless times with my finger over the 4x button, but for the most part, I can't wait for a free (and hopefully rainy) weekend so I can root through my stacks of unwatched Asian DVDs and VCDs for countless NEW experiences. OLD BOY is still in a storage container in the closet for any day I feel the need to remind myself why I loved it so much, but before that, there's A LOT of other joys both wretched and rarefied to behold, even if they do come wrapped in titles like HOOKER'S WORLD (Hong Kong) or MY BOYFRIEND IS TYPE B (Korea) or BLAME IT ON THE NURSES (Japan) or CODENAME CUGAR (China).

As an example of what I'm talking about, I'll point to the only other forum in which I actively participate: www.koreanfilm.org. To me, this is one of the premiere discussion/review sites for Korean cinema anywhere on the internet. The site is run by a non-Korean guy who actually has deep connections to the K-film industry as well as immeasurable respect for the country (he lives there) it's people and it's culture. There are a couple of other contributors there who are reasonably well embedded in Korea's film culture. The reviews are insightful, well written and the discussions very respectful.

The problem I have is the tendency for contributors to get hung up discussing high-brow and/or high-profile releases (obviously ones that get international attention draw more participants into the discussions) and the reviewers to review the same. And it's not that these aren't often phenomenal films. Frequently they are. But this leaves me swingin' when it comes to discussing some of the lower-profile but no less populist films that make up the majority of the Korean DVDs I buy.

As an example, check out this 2005 list:
http://www.koreanfilm.org/films2005.html

The film titles that are "links" are in the review database. The titles that are "black" are not. The black titles far outnumber the "link" titles, which can be frustrating when you actually enjoy reading the opinions of the reviewers there. Discussion of the "black" titles in the forums is non-existent. When I've started threads on these titles after I've watched them, they generally go nowhere as nobody but myself seems to be taking a chance on buying them - probably because hardly anybody in the web communities seems willing to spend (and possibly waste) their money on films that aren't being subjected to hyperbole. THE HOST? Countless sources of discussions and reviews for that one (and indeed it looks fantastic). BLUE SWALLOW, the controversial film about a controversial female aviator? . . . . . (insert sounds of crickets chirping here)

The issue I have, then, isn't with the overall quality of such a site or its contributors, it's with the amount of available information on the wide array of Korean films that are released each year. I know there are other K-film review sites, but they don't hold a candle, even if they DO cover titles not covered at koreanfilm.org.

This issue, at least in my mind, plagues certain other Asian- and Hong Kong-related discussion forums. It's not a total loss though, as it gives me all the more motivation (and time!) to plow through the titles that no one else seems to be watching.